五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:给“镭射”的答复 -- 思索

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              • 家园 从头到尾我说的都很清楚

                用合法,用强权就是公理来辩护以色列是正义的一直是你。

                链接出处

                主持人:对于那些仍然坚称以色列是在一片无人土地上建国的人,你的回应是什 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                么?

                    

                    本-阿米:那当然是无稽之谈。“一块没有人民的土地给了一块没有土地的人民

                ,”我想是冉威尔(Zangwill)第一个这么说的。这当然是不对的。但是另一个悲哀的事 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                情是,当地的巴勒斯坦农民当时也无法主宰自己的命运。部分土地是犹太复国组织从奥斯

                曼土耳其帝国的地主手中买来的,在买来之后上面的巴勒斯坦人当然就被驱逐了。但我想

                以色列国的领土最多只有6%-7%是买来的。其他土地都是接管或通过战争夺占的。

                     主持人:芬克尔斯坦,你是否认同本-阿米的分析? http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                    

                    芬克尔斯坦:首先我同意,现在严肃的历史学家和心智正常的人对于本-阿米所

                述的事实基本没有多少争议。从19世纪末第一个犹太复国分子定居点建立到1948年之间到

                底都发生了些什么事情,目前人们已经有了共识。 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                    

                    在本-阿米的书中,他认为犹太复国主义的主要困境是,他们想建立一个主要是

                犹太人的国家,但这块土地上的主要人口却不是犹太人。根据本-阿米提供的数字,在1

                906年那里有70万阿拉伯人和5.5万犹太人,而且在这5.5万人中只有少数几个犹太复国主 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                义分子。这就是个困境。

                    

                    于是以色列历史学家本尼·莫里斯(Benny Morris)就认为,解决这个困境有两

                个办法。一个是所谓的南非方式,建立一个犹太国,但不给予土著居民政治权利。另一个 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                办法是把当地人赶走,就像北美发生的事情。

                    

                    正如本-阿米在书中指出的,在上世纪30年代犹太复国主义运动内部已经达成共

                识,采取第二种办法——把巴勒斯坦人赶走。但这会引起道德和国际反应,所以不是想做 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                就能做的。所以要等待时机。而1948年是个绝好的时机。在战争的掩护下,你就有了机会

                去驱逐当地居民。莫里斯认为巴勒斯坦人在1948年遭到了种族清洗,但他认为那是战争不

                可避免的后果,之前并没有这种目的。而让我感到有些奇怪的是,本-阿米的观点要更进

                一步,他认为很明显他们一开始就有意驱逐巴勒斯坦人。对于这些事实我都认可。 http://www.ccthere.com/article/2267006

                • 家园 从头到尾我说的也很清楚

                  我所持的,就是中国政府的一贯主张:在近现代的国际交往中,判断正义与否的唯一标准就是国际法。遵守国际法的就是正义的,违反国际法的就是非正义的。任何企图将违反国际法的行为包装为“正义”的做法都不可能得逞。

                  • 家园 那以色列吞并戈兰高地的行为是合法的还是非法的呢?

                    如果是合法的,合哪家的法?

                    如果是非法的,有什么不良后果?

                  • 家园 你的观点不要歪曲成国家的观点

                    中国一贯主张是推翻不平等条约,合法?

                    • 家园 那就请你告诉大家

                      你认为洛桑和约是不平等条约吗?

                      • 家园 委任统治殖民地和本国领土是不同的

                        谈国际法起码要知道这个

                        • 家园 委任统治地不是殖民地

                          谈国际法起码要知道这个

                          • 家园 你还知道委任统治地不是殖民地啊

                            委任统治制度 mandate system

                              第一次世界大战结束后,帝国主义战胜国所建立的通过国际联盟对战败国的殖民地进行再分割和统治的一种制度。《国际联盟盟约》规定,战前(甲)奥斯曼帝国(土耳其)所属近东部分地区、(乙)德国所属非洲殖民地、(丙)德国所属西南非和太平洋诸岛,均由国际联盟委任英国、法国和日本等国进行统治。被统治的殖民地称为委任统治地,受委任进行统治的国家称为受委任国。

                            受委任国的任务,对甲类委任统治地,是给予行政“指导及援助”;

                            对乙类委任统治地,是根据所规定的条件将其作为单独的领土担负地方行政责任;

                            对丙类委任统治地,是按照各种保证将其作为自己领土的组成部分加以治理。

                            在形式上受委任国与委任统治地是一种“保护”关系,受委任国对国际联盟负责,须就委任统治地之情况向行政院提出年度报告。到第二次世界大战结束成立联合国时,甲类委任统治地,如伊拉克、叙利亚和黎巴嫩,均已成为独立国家;而乙类和丙类委任统治地,则被转为联合国托管制度下的托管领土。

                            当时属甲类委任统治地的有叙利亚、黎巴嫩、巴勒斯坦、外约旦和伊拉克;乙类委任统治地有多哥、喀麦隆、卢旺达——布隆迪、坦噶尼喀;丙类委任统治地有西南非洲、新几内亚、瑙鲁、西萨摩亚和赤道以北岛屿。

                            麻烦自己看看国际联盟盟约:

                            ARTICLE 22.

                            To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

                            The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

                            The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

                            Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

                            Other peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the Mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territory under conditions which will guarantee freedom of conscience and religion, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic and the liquor traffic, and the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and will also secure equal opportunities for the trade and commerce of other Members of the League.

                            There are territories, such as South-West Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their population, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilisation, or their geographical contiguity to the territory of the Mandatory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the laws of the Mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

                            In every case of mandate, the Mandatory shall render to the Council an annual report in reference to the territory committed to its charge.

                            The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

                            A permanent Commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the Mandatories and to advise the Council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates.

                          • 家园 谈正义先和以色列前外交部长谈吧

                            有些中国人比以色列人更提以色列辩护,真可笑

                            http://www.ccthere.com/article/1982089

                            http://www.ccthere.com/article/1982091

                            http://www.ccthere.com/article/1982095

                            http://www.ccthere.com/article/1982099

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