五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:关于拉美化:“中国模式”有多独特 -- 土拨鼠yuanap

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    • 家园 独特个什么呀?

      前有日本,中有四小,后有越南,那个和中国不都是走的一样的路子?唯一不同的就是中国规模大(可是也远不如人家和谐,比日本不提,就比台湾TG能比吗?天天说台湾黑金政治,随便下下乡TG底下黑社会也不差把,残忍手段竹联帮怕是不敢比。),我还真看不出来TG有什么特殊。不过真正旺了不到10年左右,真的牛到现在这么鸡血乱喷的地步?除了人口面积带来的规模以外,技术,社会和谐,政治长期稳定,国际环境,企业竞争力,etc.那个能比的上日本,韩国,甚至台湾(以山寨为荣,可离了MTK的东西那个能山寨。)我还真是不明白着1年多来的自我吹捧优越感从那里来?

      • 家园 大陆的黑社会哪能跟竹联帮比啊

        人家可是敢去美国搞政治谋杀的。几十年后,电视再访问当时的当事人,他们还是认为那时所做的是为了台湾为了当局,一点儿错也没有。

        大陆哪有觉悟这么高的黑社会?

        • 家园 Well

          In Hong Kong and Taiwan, organized crime has already seeped into legitimate business that their existence doesn't threaten lives of average folks any more. In the US, old Italian mafia also went largely semi-legit and business-oriented, in another word, their work might not be legal, but as an average joe, you usually don't have to worry about being killed or maimed as a result of their criminal activities, for average Americans, latino or black or even Asian Americans street gangs are far bigger security menaces than five families in New York.

          China, on the other hand, has large amount of criminal organizations that might win collaboration from corrupt government officials, yet still couldn't really adopt even an semblance of business practice, basically, in China, as an average joe, you really have to worry about crossing leader of even some of the more established underground figures, they don't deserve the title "mobster", the best they could be compared to are gang-bangers roaming on LA streets.

          That being said, Chinese government at least has the authority to completely eliminate a criminal organization if it really wants to, something can't be said about other more democracy oriented governments (democracy vs authoritarian government, which one is better? It depends, it was very safe for an average joe to live in Nazi Germany, something can't be said about America or China or pretty much all other countries in 21st century. But if you do find yourself at the wrong end of government power, it's much better to live in current China than, say, China in 1970.)

          • Well
            家园 又一堆废话

            In Hong Kong and Taiwan, organized crime has already seeped into legitimate business that their existence doesn't threaten lives of average folks any more.

            没听过保护费这名词吧 ?也没听过黑道人物垄断某些行业吧?

            台湾的黑社会堂而皇之跟政客打交道,黑道老大讨媳妇,立委和官员专程到贺,这种新闻还上了报章。

            日本的黑道暴力集团更加不用说了。

            墨西哥黑帮可以连警察局也炸掉,为报复黑老大被抓而当街枪杀警员向警方施压。 巴西的黑帮连警方直升机也打下来 。。。

            美国的黑帮如何俺不清楚也就不说了。

            啥时候中国国内的黑帮有这么牛逼你再来说事吧。

            看这一堆又一堆闭门造车废话,俺根本就怀疑你未在大陆住过,看看台港的反共烂报章就 blablabla 。。。

            • 家园 恩 所以这里我们没有黑社会
              • 家园 对你来说土共就是黑社会

                而一般人对黑社会只是一个含糊的统称 ~~ 街头小混混、乡镇地头蛇、官商勾结土豪等都被概称为黑社会。

                你找一个在大陆的有组织,有跨省势力的黑社会来跟日本山口组、哥伦比亚麦德林集团、墨西哥Sinaloa、黑手党、台湾竹联帮、香港新义安那种黑社会比一比啥叫真正黑社会再说。

            • 家园 你在大陆小地方住过没?

              不是以为北京上海就是中国了把,中国黑帮?中国黑帮需要太子党政治局委员亲自动手打还被包括这个对中国无原则吹捧的论坛都心惊胆战的情况香港台湾美国的还真不多见。

              • 家园 有人家这么牛逼吗?

                看看你所谓的 “organized crime has already seeped into legitimate business that their existence doesn't threaten lives of average folks any more.” :

                【 本 報 訊 】 「 你 差 人 正 食 屎 狗 無 × 用 … … 淨 係 識 拉 小 販 , 唔 使 你 ( 警 察 ) 幫 手 啦 , 江 湖 事 江 湖 了 , 我 聽 日 就 掃 場 。 」 昨 凌 晨 於 油 麻 地 彌 敦 道 「 348 的 士 高 」 門 外 , 兩 幫 黑 漢 在 的 士 高 內 混 戰 後 , 被 毆 至 血 流 披 面 的 一 方 竟 向 到 場 調 查 的 警 員 爆 粗 洩 憤 , 有 人 更 指 一 名 女 督 察 的 鼻 子 破 口 大 罵 , 氣 焰 甚 為 囂 張 , 完 全 當 警 方 「 無 到 」 。

                這 是 繼 黑 幫 和 勝 和 「 佐 敦 之 虎 」 一 句 「 十 二 點 鐘 後 佐 敦 我 話 事 」 之 後 , 油 尖 區 近 期 第 三 宗 辱 警 事 件 , 警 方 在 事 件 中 同 樣 採 取 容 忍 及 克 制 態 度 , 並 無 對 滋 事 者 採 取 任 何 行 動 。

                對 於 油 麻 地 昨 日 又 發 生 黑 人 物 挑 釁 及 辱 罵 警 員 的 事 件 , 立 法 會 保 安 事 務 委 員 會 主 席 涂 謹 申 表 示 , 警 方 應 針 對 性 的 對 付 黑 社 會 這 類 行 為 , 不 能 讓 黑 勢 力 坐 大 , 否 則 情 況 將 一 發 不 可 收 拾 , 場 面 更 難 控 制 。

                警 察 員 方 組 織 對 有 關 「 辱 警 」 事 件 表 示 關 注 。

                [提示:原图站已失效]

                [提示:原图站已失效]

              • 家园 台湾和大陆确实不一样

                台湾是太子党直接和黑社会勾结。关键词:蒋孝武 竹联帮。

      • 家园 你也不去台湾日本问问,经济多少年不增长了。

        有对比才知道好坏。

        • 家园 GDP growth is NOT

          yard stick. I'm sure Chinese leadership would love to be a position where 2% to 3% growth would be enough to ensure full employment and social harmony. China HAS to have 8%+ growth because otherwise there'd be social unrest and political challenge to the government. You really think it's good to be forced to do whatever the government can, even at the expense of social and environmental cost, to growth GDP? It's NOT. And that's why I think India's optimism regarding their population growth is ridiculous, that's why I believe China MUST keep its one Child policy for decades to come and that's why I think and KNOW, that people in Brazil, a country most Chinese HKCs would dismiss as irrelevant, live far better live in people in China on average, yeah, there are serious crime problem, and there are squalor, but don't tell me Chinese crime isn't a problem and living conditions of migrant workers are better than squalor. Bottom line is, if you want to to exploited as low cost labor, grow your population as much as you can, otherwise, don't sneer at low growth in Japan or Taiwan.

          BTW, Britain has been "declining" for decades or even generations, how many Chinese would rather have British passport?

          Quality is more important than quantity. Historically, Chinese dynasty fell because the government couldn't ensure basic living standard for the people, not because they couldn't grow the economy.

          And one more thing, most people I know who came from such "backward", worthless, according to Chinese HKC, European countries such as Spain, Portugal or even recent superstar Greece, don't give a damn about American green card, something even people from the most developed parts of China can't say about. That''s the true indicator of development.

          • 家园 一堆废话

            辛苦了你,为丑化中国而码了这么一堆字 ,可惜只是一堆废话,我怎么说是废话咧? 看 :

            people in Brazil, a country most Chinese HKCs would dismiss as irrelevant, live far better live in people in China on average,

            BTW, Britain has been "declining" for decades or even generations, how many Chinese would rather have British passport?

            。。。 don't give a damn about American green card, something even people from the most developed parts of China can't say about.

            简单地说, 你对少中国人做了啥调查而得出这样结论 ?

          • 家园 你看到的中国和我看到的差别太大了。

            如果说中国发展是重数量不重质量,就实在没法交流了。不说,数量到了中国这样的级别还是不质变的话,中国在技术上的成就已经不是数量可以解释的了。

            你讲的是西方报纸中描写的平行世界里的中国,或是你精心挑选过的样本组成的中国,和我眼中现实中的中国的关系实在不是很大。

            • 家园 Don't just dimissn what the

              west says about China. Honestly speaking, I haven't seen any Chinese news media even remotely comparable to even some of the tabloid, ideologically extreme media outs of the US. Yeah, they're biased, but they're not as biased as Chinese media. Can you or can you not give even one example of Tomas Edison of China? If you can't, you better not compare China to early 20th century America, cuz back then, the US DID have a Thomas Edison who fundamentally changed life of every human being on this planet.

              I'm not asking too much, just ONE example remotely comparable to Edison or even such figures as Bill Gates or Larry page, the guy who are dismissed by many Chinese HKCs.

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