五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:【原创】美国视角1: 中国在朝鲜战争中的角色 -- 爱吃肉的兔子

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      • 家园 太祖是明白人

        太祖:

        美帝国主义者很傲慢,凡是可以不讲理的地方就一定不讲理,要是讲一点理的话,那是被逼得不得已了。

        对比:按国际惯例办事

        对比:负责任的[FLY]大国[/FLY]

        • 家园 说句难听点的。

          今上和影帝应该好好重读这篇文章。

          免得得上软骨病和天真幼稚症。

          毛泽东的内政和经济可以不学,但对外战略,学好了,够用一百年。

          • 家园 主席内政和经济只是你没有看懂而已!

            现在的中国之所以能快速崛起,根源主要在于主席的内政和经济,至于对外战略,基本可以看成主席的业务爱好!

          • 家园 毛主席的内政和经济恐怕不只是用100年的。
    • 家园 【原创】美国视角4: 战俘回忆

      接上文: 这个老兵参加过长津湖血战,并在那里被俘。他的部队对于朝鲜和志愿军是有血债的(见下文)。

      口述者: James Calvin DeLong。 生于1931年Pennsylvania。驻日美军机枪组组长。朝鲜战争爆发后突击提拔为中士。1950年加入美军第七步兵师31团3营K群机枪组。参加过仁川登陆和长津湖战役,而后被我志愿军俘虏。1953年释放回美。

      省略部分概述: Mr. Delong在长津湖地区Hill 1221(注:一个小高地,具体位置大概在长津水库北面)于1950年12月1日企图撤退时被俘。

      They put us in a ditch and made us kneel down. I thought they were going to kill us at that point. There might have been 20 or 30 of us in the ditch at that time, and the Chinese stood around us with Thompson submachine guns. They kept us there for about an hour. It was cold so it seemed like an hour anyway. It seemed like an eternity when we were down there with our hands tied behind our back. After a while a Chinaman came running up the road and handed this other one a note. Apparently it was an order. He read it and then they untied our hands, took us out in the road, and started marching us back through. I felt that once we get off the front line, we had a much better chance of surviving. I figured that those guys were like us. We Americans were not always humane when it came to treatment of prisoners of war. We killed prisoners, too. When we pulled out of that one area at Chosin where we had prisoners in the house, we opened the doors and threw white phosphorus in on the prisoners. I didn't personally do it, but I saw others in the 31st Infantry Regiment do it. They didn’t release them. They just threw the white phosphorus on them and burned the house. Don’t ask me why they did it, but they did. I was sure hoping that the Chinese didn’t do that to us when I was taken prisoner. One looks at life a little differently when he is the prisoner.

      志愿军战士把我们带到路旁的水沟里,然后让我们跪下。在那个时候,我以为我们要被处决。水沟里大概有20到30个美军士兵,志愿军战士手拿Thompson冲锋枪(大概是20军或者27军的战士,他们在淮海战役缴获不少美式装备)站在旁边。天气如此的冷,可能过了一个小时(也可能不是)。我们手被捆在背后,似乎要永远呆在沟里。终于一个中国士兵从公路跑步过来,递给等候的士兵一个便条。很明显这是个命令。读完命令后,我们的手被解开,带上公路,并开始向后方进发。我预感我们一旦离开前线,应该有很大机会活下去。我也明白这些人和我军一样,我军(指美国军队)对于战俘并不总是实行人道主义。我们杀俘虏。当我们从长津撤退的时候,我们31步兵团对被关在屋子里的俘虏(是这样的),拉开门,投入白磷燃烧弹。我本人没有这样作过。但我确实看见其他人这样干。这些俘虏没有被释放,他们被投入白磷燃烧弹然后被关在屋子里烧死(注:可能是朝鲜人民军和平民,但我觉得也有可能有志愿军战俘)。不要问我为什么他们会这么做,但他们确乎有人这样干。我希望我作为战俘,不要被这样对待。(我知道)当一个人成为俘虏的时候他看待生命的态度可能会有些不一样(注:你希望别人怎么对待你,你也应该这样对待别人,看别人杀人而不停止,这位也不是什么好人)。

      关于伙食和志愿军看守

      We got maybe two meals a day if we were lucky. We very seldom ever got what I considered white rice. At Camp 10 we never had any meat of any kind that I can remember. We also didn't have any fruit.

      我们如果幸运的话,会一日两餐。我们几乎没有吃到白米饭(注:考虑到志愿军的炒面就雪水,而且还经常吃不上,我不能不感叹我方对战俘的仁慈)。在10号战俘营,我们没有任何肉可吃。我们也没有水果(注:看到这里,笔者只能说美军的后勤很好,然后,这位一点被俘虏的自觉都没有)。

      I never became friends with any of my captors, although some of our guards treated us good and we could bum a cigarette from them every once in a while. I was able to do that. We all did it. We had one guard who could speak a little English and he was with us pretty long. He was a Chinaman. He was fairly old. He had been in Chiang Kai-shek's army but then he came over to the Communists. The Chinese had a lot of troops in Korea who had fought for Chiang Kai-shek. They were all seasoned troops with a lot of battle experience. The older ones were kept back with the prisoners. We had one Chinese interpreter named Pam. He was a Harvard graduate. A smart cookie. He was a political commissar. He had more power than a regimental commander in the army. When he spoke, they moved. What he wanted he got. He had a lot of weight. We called him "Lieutenant Pam." He was around us for quite a while.

      我没有和任何看守做朋友,尽管有些看守确实对我们不错。我们可以不时从他们那里讨根烟抽。我这么做过。我们每个人都要过。有一个守卫会一些英语,他曾经在蒋介石的军队干过然后投奔加入共产党军队,已经相当老了。他和我们呆了很长一段时间。实际上很多共产党军队的士兵都曾经为蒋介石服务过。他们都是老兵而且富有战斗经验。一些岁数大的就留下来看守我们。还有一个翻译,我们叫他中尉Pam. 他从哈佛毕业,非常聪明,是看守营的政治委员。在看守部队里,他甚至比团长还有权。他命令,人们执行。他能得到任何他想要的。他很胖,和我们在一起待了很久(注:美军的战俘集中营也有翻译,但他们的角色和凶残我不想提了。只能再次感叹志愿军对美军战俘的仁慈)。

      We were never punished at Camp 10. They just tried to brainwash us and to interrogate us. If we didn't give them the answers they thought were the right ones, they got a little tough with us, but normally I didn’t have any really bad treatment there. I mean, we might have been hit with a rifle butt or something, but nothing other than that. I don’t consider that bad treatment. I just consider that as part of the routine of being a prisoner--getting hit and being moved around.

      在10号营地,我们从来没有被惩罚过。他们只是试图给我们洗脑或是询问我们。如果他们认为我们没有回答出他们想要的东西,他们会变得严厉些,但一般来说我们没有受到任何真正的虐待。我是说,我们顶多被枪托砸几下,这就是最大的惩罚。我不认为那是虐待。我以为,作为一个俘虏,被打几下然后到处转移是很正常的事情。

      Mr. DeLong作为战俘,在1953年被释放,然后回到美国。他于1955年结婚,后来有一个女儿和儿子。

      注: 考虑到我方战俘在美军集中营的待遇。我只能说我们太仁慈。Mr. DeLong所属部队用白磷燃烧弹虐杀战俘. 至于没有把直接杀死的,也好不到那里去。记录我方战俘待遇和被强制转移到台湾的报道已经太多。我就不一一转述。

      我的一个结论是:象焦国标这样愿意被‘自由’‘民主’的美军巡航导弹炸死的人,应该很乐意尝试被‘自由’‘民主’的美军白磷燃烧弹灼烧吧,或是被‘自由’‘民主’的国民党特务在身体上刻下反共复国的字眼,作为他的信仰,他也应该很乐意。祝焦先生在美国得尝所愿。

      最后,祝福归国或是流落台湾的志愿军战俘,希望他们有个幸福的晚年。也希望他们有回忆和口述留下。让后人铭记。

      关键词(Tags): #朝鲜战争#战俘通宝推:猪头大将,njyd,zilla,

      本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
      • 家园 翻译商榷

        He had a lot of weight. 意思应该是“他举足轻重”,不是“他很胖”。

      • 家园 和DeLong同时被俘的霉菌士兵,四成以上在战俘营里饿死

        没有活到51年的夏天。

        DeLong所在的十号营还算是比较好的,死亡率比那个办奥运会的碧潼营要低一大截。碧潼营根据徐焰的说法,51年头三个月每天起码要死二三十个。

        不过根据DeLong的回忆录,他自己参加埋尸体15到20次。

        http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/memoirs/delong_james/index.htm

        “I was on maybe 15 to 20 burial details, but I didn’t know who I was burying. We put them in the ground as far as we could and then stacked rocks on top of them. They weren't in a bag. They were just put in the ground. If they had a pair of shoes on and they were better shoes than what we had on, we took the shoes if they fit us. Survival was the main thing. To keep warm. If the person who died had a field jacket and we needed it for someone, we took it. The dead guy didn’t need it anymore. A lot of times we buried guys with no clothes. If the ground was frozen solid and we couldn't dig a hole, we just put them on top of the ground. We didn’t know what their name was a lot of times, but we said something over them at the grave. We gave them a little blessing. We never knew if we were going to be the next one to be dragged up the hill to be buried.”

        • 家园 这个

          我也看到了,但我觉得如果不是刻意,也是没有办法的事情。

          我不能想象一颗土豆都是志愿军战士的口粮时,俘虏们会得到什么。

          有两点要注意

          1。俘虏没有粮食,那时应为当时志愿军的后勤被美军轰炸的结果。这是敌人的错,并不是我方的虐待。

          2。俘虏的死亡,很大程度是严寒和饮食不习惯。我现在每年回国都要病一下。如果没有医药和保暖,很显然志愿军自己都没有,俘虏的伤亡也是没有办法的事情。这还是美国空军轰炸的结果。

          • 这个
            家园 俘虏营位大后方的鸭绿江边,那个地方根本不存在什么粮食问题

            当时的问题是后方物资堆积如山,因为敌人的封锁运不到前线.

            前线的志愿军缺乏供应,但是撤退到后方整补的部队当然能吃饱穿暖,连这点都做不到,部队根本就不能恢复战斗力.

            战俘营的供应在51年夏季之后就大大改善,如果以前是因为敌人轰炸而缺乏物资,难道51年夏季之后敌人就不轰炸?

            给战俘提供充足的食物,是日内瓦公约规定的义务.周恩来总理当年可是声明过中国要遵守该公约的.

            日内瓦公约还规定:战俘营的管理国必须允许家属通过红十字会向战俘送包裹.日本人和德国人在二战时期都做到了这点.

            但是我们就没做到

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