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主题:从个人经历谈下朱相 -- 五福

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                              • 家园 你来赞叹一下美国镇政府是如何认真执行法律条文的吧。

                                赫芬顿邮报:为贫困儿童提供免费午餐的费城妇女安吉拉普拉提斯收到天价罚单

                                http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-81732-1-1.html

                                赫芬顿邮报

                                龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com

                                龙腾网版权所有 http://www.ltaaa.com新闻标题:

                                Angela Prattis, Philadelphia Woman WhoGives Free Lunch To Poor Kids, Gets Huge Fine

                                为贫困儿童提供免费午餐的费城妇女安吉拉·普拉提斯收到天价罚单。

                                译者:珈蓝一若叶

                                国家:美国

                                新闻链接:

                                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/angela-prattis-philadelphia-free-lunch_n_1778784.html

                                新闻翻译:

                                Every day during the summer, AngelaPrattis’ driveway turns into a dining room for 60 children desperate for ameal. But if the Philadelphia woman can’t come up with $1,000 for a permit,these hungry kids may have nowhere to turn.

                                这个暑假,安吉拉·普拉提斯家的车道每天中午都会变成餐厅,为60名挣扎在饥饿线上的儿童提供免费午餐。但是,如果这位费城妇女拿不出1000美元来申请许可证,这些孩子将走投无路。

                                The 41-year-old mother of three’s food programis funded by the state department of education and is administered by thearchdiocese of Philadelphia, which drops off the lunches, NBC 10 reports. WhilePrattis thought she had followed the proper protocol, the Chester Townshiprecently informed her that because she’s operating out of a residential area,she has to apply for a variance, which costs $1,000 for the zoning hearing.Officials also said they would fine her $600 a day until she stoppeddistributing free food, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

                                据NBC第十频道报道,这位41岁的母亲参与了由国家教育部出资,费城教区管理的“三方食品计划”,负责提供免费午餐。尽管普拉提斯认为她已经遵守了一切合理规定,但最近切斯特镇的官员通知她,因为她是在居住区域外开设餐厅,根据辖区听证会确定的相关条例她必须申请许可,申请费用高达1000美元。据《费城问询报》报道,官员们还表示,他们将会向她收取每天600美元的罚款,直到她停止免费分发食物为止。

                                “Nobody'sagainst the program,” Township Manager William Piserik, told the news outlet,“but folks don't want the program set up in the lady's front driveway."

                                “没人反对这个计划,”小镇的行政长官威廉·皮萨里克告诉该报记者,“但人们不希望它在那位女士家门口的车道上进行。”

                                After heeding to media pressure, thetownship withdrew the fines, but it’s still insisting that Prattis cough up thefunds for the variance, a steep expense she can’t afford, and believesshouldn’t apply to her. The do-gooder told delcotimes.com thatshe believes she should be exempt from such zoning laws because she isn’tcooking or selling food.

                                在受到了来自媒体的压力后,镇政府撤回了处罚决定,但他们仍然坚持普拉提斯需要自行缴纳许可证申请费。高昂的费用超出了普拉提斯的承受能力,同时,她也认为该条例不适用于她的情况。这位社会改良家告诉delcotimes.com的记者,她认为她应该免于受这条辖区法律管辖,因为她并不烹饪,也不出售食物。

                                “We’re talkingabout children,” Prattis told NBC 10. “Children. “It’s unbelievable. They’venever once said anything to me in reference to what to do to be in the rightstanding with the township.”

                                “我们在谈论的是孩子们,”普拉提斯告诉NBC第十频道的记者,“真是难以置信。他们从没告诉过我,要怎样做才能让镇政府满意。”

                                Gratis meal programs like Prattis’ arecritical during the summer months when 21 million children are at risk forhunger once they lose out on their free breakfast and lunch at school.

                                暑假的几个月里,像普拉提斯这样的免费午餐计划非常关键。离开了学校里提供的免费早餐和午餐,2100万美国儿童将面临挨饿的风险。

                                However, Prattis refuses to give up on hermission. She plans on attending the next Chester Township Council meeting andshe will continue serving the kids that need her services, NBC 10 reports.

                                但是,普拉提斯拒绝放弃她的使命。她计划出席下一次的切斯特镇议事大会,并继续为需要帮助的孩子们提供服务,NBC第十频道报道。

                                “I’m notstopping,” she told delcotimes.com. “These kids arehungry. I’m not tearing down the community. I’m keeping the children out ofharm’s way.”

                                “我不会停下来的。”她告诉delcotimes.com的记者,“这些孩子都在挨饿。我不是要撕裂整个社区,我在保护这些孩子免受伤害。”.

                                • 家园 misundertanding of my points

                                  any violation of property right or criminal action by one elite member/gov. to the average Joes?

                                  Most cities have municipal ordinances regulating the health management of food vendor. There is annual check against restaurants in most cities. I am not too surprised. But the lady here can argue that there is discriminatory enforcement against her SINCE NO COOKING IS INVOLVED and seeks exemption. The final outcome seems not certain yet.

                                  She did the right thing to resort to media for help and here, gov.'s abuse of fining power is contained by the media.

                                  BTw, my post has made it clear: elite class/gov. often infringes on individual rights and people need to fight back. I DID NOT SAY every level of gov. in States is doing the right thing. Otherwise, why there were civil right movement in 1960s?

                                  BTW, I am also puzzled why the gov. needs to provide food in the summer DIRECTLY to children: it is the responsibility of PARENTS to feed their own kids. Where are the parents here? Or if they get food coupons already, why those parents do not feed their own children? Food coupons are turned into DRUGS OR ALCOHOLIC DRINKS AGAIN???

                                  Read behind the story.

                                  • 家园 又是站在这种无聊moral ground上来谈体制问题

                                    就算红脖子蛮勇,米国大爷们不敢使劲惹他们,所以米国大爷为了红脖子们好好呆着就只好剥削全世界了。所以呢中国的屁民们被中国的黑心资本家压榨多少也得归功于米国大爷们为了讨好红脖子们的企图。

                                    中国的大爷们要是有机会剥削全世界,那还用得着这么压迫屁民,搞得阶级关系紧张?

                                    给你家山姆大叔洗地的时候千万记住了,不要抽象地谈“体制问题”。

                                    we are in one world(资源有限的世界)and we all have one dream(发大财的梦).

                                    当有些“高等华人”开始自以为是地、居高临下地道德说教的时候,当他们开始为山姆大叔洗地的时候,我们就要坚决地指出米国大爷们和米国红脖子们为了自己的发财梦断送别国屁民们的发财梦这样一个简单的事实。


                                    本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
                                    • 家园 一起下地狱也不错

                                      哈哈哈,不能一起上天堂,一起下地狱也不错。世界如果不进入马克思意义上的社会主义,让资本主义乱搞下去,地球迟早完蛋,或者应该说地球提早很多完蛋。

                                      I'll give you a free ride there.

                                      And not just you, in fact, anyone.

                                      It gives me the utmost pleasure to present anyone willing with a one-way ticket to hell.

                                      说笑说笑,别介意。

                                    • 家园 世界其他国家,大都以为美国而变富了吧

                                      美国的经济火车头作用为世界公认。因为美国购买简单工业品而脱贫的国家很多。世界上多数不发达国家都是靠向美国出口刷经验而脱贫的。

                                    • 家园 自己的发财梦断送别国屁民们的发财梦

                                      but why it does not happen to Europeans or in Canada, ONLY happen for Chinese???

                                      Let's ignore each other. Enjoy your time back there.

                              • 家园 你真是理想化

                                美国占领华尔街的99%发来贺电

                              • 家园 你说的有点理想主义。精神可嘉
                                • 家园 remember how civil rights

                                  movement is won in America?

                                  If Black Americans played chickens as they used to do or as Asian ALWAYS DO, America were still be a racist society and you and I will never immigrate to this place.

                                  In Canada, it was the same experience. Canada used to be one of the most racist nations too--rather than an open and diverse nation as one sees today.

                                  • 家园 但还远不够理想 国国都有本难年的经

                                    社会碎片化严重。当然,国国都有本难年的经.

                                    美国,医疗成本居高不下。新增人口素质越来越低(不是种族歧视,包括白人新增人口也同样)。人口健康水平是科学指标。这些是长远根本问题。毕竟组成社会的是人。制度是一方面。

                                    现在美国没有办法从制度上制约医疗成本高涨。这是制度漏洞。因为资本主义的核心就是全社会都在竞争中提高。而现在医疗成本脱离地球引力了。

                                    吸毒问题.穷困人口暴力问题(黑人)。我感觉是可以解决的。但政客们种种原因都不愿意碰。这些都越来越严重,而不是越来越趋向解决。

                                    国民健康。大量国民超重慢性病。这没办法解决。是人性。这体现了人的本性。

                                    实际美国有大量人口是吃free lunch.当然是从你们中产那里来的。

                                    不过我不想比烂。讨论中国问题的时候就说中国的问题。

                                    说美国问题的时候就说美国的问题。

                                    不要说中国的时候,就说美国也烂。说美国的时候说中国更烂。

                                    比烂没有任何意义。

                                    *****************************************************

                                    一个社会需要,民主,人权,法制,新闻自由,经济自由竞争,税负公平。

                                    现在美国法制出了问题。其实暴力就是破坏了局部地区法制。

                                    而局部领域,医疗,缺乏竞争。

                                    最近几十年,在人权,新闻自由,经济自由竞争(医疗外)做得比较好。民主和法制都有大退步。税负公平方面,见仁见智了。

                                    按照EMYN的说法,在民主自由社会里,一部分人不愿意"上进"了,你还真没招。因为资本主义假定,如果人没有羁绊,自由,会自动追求上进。

                                    • 家园 我没有说美国

                                      或加拿大是完美的,now or in the past or in the future,事实上100年前的美国比现在凄惨的多,大多数的改进只是在过去60年里发生了。

                                      BTW,first, it is always great to chat with you for some insightful chats.

                                      我的要点在于Luo Shi 群体不能逆来顺受,碰上显失公平的待遇,就要说出来。但somebody 自己吸毒酗酒,性行为不检点沦落了,那是活该,不是我说的Luo Shi 群体。

                                      社会的进步是抗争出来的。1890-1910 美国的Progressive Movement就是disadvanged 群体与精英中的改良派合作抗争的成果。不要指望天上掉馅饼,温总理来恩赐。

                                      美国法制出了问题

                                      -there are good laws to abide by. There are bad law to oppose. 美国的civilright Act (民权法)是让美国更和谐的好法。法律说白人与亚洲裔不能使用同一个洗手间,那就是恶法,用ACLU去挑战推翻之。英美都有civil disobedience 的传统。

                                      There is something above law--it is called equality and conscience. It is part of historical heritage of the common law system. 美国法制出了问题--there are various case laws to change or improve it.

                                      当英国人的法制在北美显失公平时,这些英国人的子孙也已给出了他们的答案。总之,there are higher principles above any established laws.

                                      医疗--it is a very tough topic. Obama's solution is similar to that in Canada: cheaper fiscally, but weak incentives for doctors and pharm firms. I do not have full knowledge on this professional topic, so I do not comment further. 我只能说这是一个技术性的难题,不像种族歧视等问题有一个简单的是非的答案。

                                      实际美国有大量人口是吃free lunch.当然是从你们中产那里来的。

                                      --我长去加拿大开会。Their calculation is: you use taxpayer's money to keep this hopeless group of population quiet, so that they will not hurt physically a large group of normal people--***you save money on the police side and have a peaceful downtown in all major Canadian cities.

                                      美国人的答案是拨更多的钱给police 来对抗这些人。以前的福利还过得过去,现在是越来越少。

                                      --我的观点:从纯粹的成本收益分析,加拿大的做法是更好的选择,如果用10美元可以减少2美元的警察支出,避免100美元的他们杀人放火的损失,当然应用加拿大的做法。我查过加拿大省预算,其实他们的70%的大头是教育补贴+公费医疗。警察支出very low. If 我的税1-2% 用于圈住这些自暴自弃的潜在问题人群,用于让他们可以活得过去,而我可以在晚上放心步行美国城市的市中心,this 1-2% is just nothing.

                                      我称此为“necessary evil". 另外,这种人是没能力lobby政客的,根本不是对财政的威胁。

                                      **美国真正的威胁是那些丘八与医保SectionD,前者浪费财政不说,还是民主政体的大敌,惟恐天下不打仗的祸首,美国40%财政支出的源头,最有lobby 能力的群体,未来独裁者的温床,连丘八的统帅Ike都要敲警钟的目标。As to SectionD, I have discussed it in another early post. It is another ticking bomb in 10 years.

                                      --No free lunch 是针对正常人而言。吸毒吸成insane 的人,不是我讨论关心的。

                                      --吸毒问题.穷困人口暴力问题(黑人)。我感觉是可以解决的。但政客们种种原因都不愿意碰。这些都越来越严重,而不是越来越趋向解决。--你太乐观了,加拿大市中心到处是大麻的香味,hehe,I expect no solution to this for 20-30 years. 北美有人权限制政府,所以只能用“养猪”法来圈住其副作用。我知道你要推荐中共的政策:抓起来,强制戒毒,穷困暴力人口强制劳改去掉恶习,培养成基本劳力。

                                      but if you give gov. this power to force people against their free will, gov. will quickly abuse their power for other purposes. 中国不是曾经把政治上的问题人群送近精神病院吗?hehe,in end you can NOT HAVE ALL GOOD STUFF FROM BOTH SYSTEMS, BUT WITHOUT LIVING WITH THE SIDE EFFECT.

                                      西方人不傻,否则这么会有预言小说1984呢??^v^

                                      法制都有大退步

                                      --Fully fully agree, but I think so because of GOV. INTRUSION INTO CIVIL LIBERTY ! Dick Cheney is a very dangerous person--even my Republican friends all think in THIS WAY. Homeland Security Act is another problematic act too.

                                      按照EMYN的说法,在民主自由社会里,一部分人不愿意"上进"了,你还真没招。因为资本主义假定,如果人没有羁绊,自由,会自动追求上进。

                                      --在正常社会里,这种人永远只是5%-10% 不到的非主流。评价任何一个国家,大家看的是主流的silent majority. public policy is set to address the majority's need/behanvior/expectation. 总有人每天要吸无数毒,把自己手臂扎的跟马蜂窝一样。但政府没必要以他们为制定政策的基础/目标人群。

                                      各朝个代,总有dark side. Even for the 10 years of horrible Cultural Revolution period, there were some bright spots, e.g., less income inequality. 但我们评价之还是看大多数人的生活。

                                      资本主义假定,如果人没有羁绊,自由,会自动追求上进。

                                      --It depends on nation culture. It does NOT apply to the majority of Greeks, who are dirty tax cheaters. But it still applies to the majority of people in Canada and States.

                                      我曾经问过一些大学年轻人,in STates and Canada, 他们是否碰过大麻。孩子们都不好意思笑了,然后承认100%都碰过。

                                      那为社么碰呢?--好奇,反父母背叛,社交聚会peer pressure, etc。

                                      那现在还碰吗?--100% 不。 因为尝了以后不舒服,or 知道长远害处太大,or 要保持好的健美身体, or 太贵没钱浪费,OR BUSY WITH OTHER STUDY/ACTIVITIES etc。

                                      in summary, the assumption of group rationality still holds in this democratic Anglo nation, IT HOLDS FOR THE MAJORITY AND HOLDS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE future elites.

                                      一个社会要生存发展,大多数人要工作干活。lf 超出50%的人每天要捧着烟枪过日子,it is not a sustainable society at all.

                                      自由的人也是聪明的人,他们不需要一个总理总统来baby sit them on everything under the name of so-called "public goods". 一个人的智慧设计永远不比上一堆人的自由意志下的设计。 民主党的Obama有好心,但他未必懂good public administration。

                                      通宝推:amazon,益者三友,
                                      • 家园 宝推一下

                                        消费两枚通宝推荐 关闭

                                        作者,声望:3;铢钱:4。你,乐善:4;铢钱:-32。本帖花:3

                  • 家园 花专业人士

                    “洋大人良心大大的坏”的很多,不过也要承认,人家最近几百年所以站在了人类文明的顶点,还是有几把刷子的。我们既要揭露帝国主义忘我之心不死的真实面目,又要善于学习很利用他们的一些好的制度、资源、方法。

                    朱的很多做法,有其时代的局限性,不考虑当时决策的环境,单纯想当然的一味诛心指责,我实在无法赞同!

                • 家园 简单说朱将美国人当上帝,当终审裁判

                  让战略敌人来裁决中国的内部事务,还有比这更脑残的,那个矮子找来的人才,就是这样脑残的混蛋,一大帮所谓精英换将朱吹捧为懂经济,还为改开路线叫好。

                  就象两军对垒,士兵打得好不好,得让敌人来评判,能取得好结果,那还不见鬼了。

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