五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:【原创】这次疫情中的星星之火 -- Ace

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        • 家园 目前是官僚贵族和平民的矛盾

          老实说救灾有功,靠的还不是几十几百万平民亲身上战场?中共以前不论什么事情都身先士卒,98洪水的时候老江亲自指挥。而这次疫情,几乎一半以上都是人祸。那些吃人血馒头的人一个都没处理,老百姓英勇抗疫,还要被扣物资,自然心里一肚子的火。

        • 家园 凡事有个比较

          我们作为中国人,总是在和最优解去比较,当然这也不是那也不是。如果站在客观立场,我敢说,这个星球上,除了朝鲜,古巴,越南;没有国家能做到我们的一半好。这事要是发生在美国,最后死十倍人都是低估。我们领导一句话全国封村,在美国这就意味着全面内战。家里有病人警察不让出村?红脖子肯定拉起步枪开干。看看美国僵尸片,都是宣扬主角多么英勇NB端着机枪出去扫射救了大家,顺路睡了一票美女的,那些听政府号召乖乖在家的下场就是个死。

      • 家园 关于病毒基因测序的效率问题,会不会是技术进步的原因?

        毕竟美国那是09年的表现,而现在已经过了10年了,这十年基因测序技术的进步还是比较大的。

        另外,基因测序到底是更偏技术活还是更偏科学家的手工活?如果更偏手工活的话,我们的生物科研人员数量应该也是一个优势。

        如果以上两个原因都不是,那估计就是有扫地僧了。。。

        • 家园 疫苗起了很大作用

          2009 flu pandemic in the United State

          On December 10, 2009, the CDC reported an estimated 50 million Americans or 1 in 6 people had been infected with the 2009 A H1N1 Virus and 10,000 American had died, by which time the vaccine was beginning to be widely distributed to the general public by several states.[126] On December 23, 2009 the CDC reported a reduction of the disease by 59% percent and the disease was expected to end in the United States in January 2010.

          "2009年12月10日,美国疾病控制与预防中心(CDC)报告称,估计有5000万美国人或每6人中就有1人感染了2009年甲型H1N1病毒,1万名美国人死亡,到那时,几个州开始向公众广泛分发疫苗。2009年12月23日,疾病控制与预防中心报告称,疾病减少了59%,预计疾病将于2010年1月在美国结束。"

          美国那次有点走运,因为病毒是在春夏之交发现的,所以科技人员有半年时间研发疫苗。不过代价依然十分惨重。

          2009年H1N1流感大流行美國情況

          截至2010年三月中旬,據美國疾病控制與預防中心 (CDC) 統計,共有5600萬美國人感染了此次H1N1病毒,265,000人住院治療,有12,000人死於此次疫情。

        • 家园 美国CDC自己的数据

          2009年H1N1流感大流行美國情況

          截至2010年三月中旬,據美國疾病控制與預防中心 (CDC) 統計,共有5600萬美國人感染了此次H1N1病毒,265,000人住院治療,有12,000人死於此次疫情。

          • 家园 这个网传消息是断章取义的。

            重点解释要点:

            第一,爆发时,美国统计是死亡2800人,感染者10万人。(当年中国感染者12万,死亡650人左右。)第二年才是网上的数据,这个应该既有补充修正,也有夸大。

            第二,那时候的“湖北省”是墨西哥,死亡率2%。

            第三,传到美国和全世界,实际效果是强流感。死亡率0.1%。

            数据互相矛盾。

            与现在比,非常像。

            • 家园 你说的大概是第一波的确诊病例

              猪流感在美国第一波爆发在当年春夏之交,第二波在当年的秋冬季。

              The total number of confirmed cases varied from 27,717(Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed and probable cases) and 25,453 (total of all state confirmed cases) as of June 26, 2009.

              Towards the middle of June 2009, the number of US cases surpassed those of Mexico, which had been the previous leader in diagnosed cases of the disease. Toward the end of June 2009, the number of deaths related to the virus in the US surpassed those of all other countries as well.

              On June 25, the CDC released information revealing that there were more than likely over one million (1,000,000) cases of the disease in the US, most of which had not been reported or diagnosed.

              *** 截至2009年6月26日,确诊病例总数从27717例(疾病控制和预防中心(CDC)确诊病例和可能病例)到25453例(所有州确诊病例总数)不等。

              2009年6月中旬,美国的病例数量超过了墨西哥,后者曾是该疾病诊断病例的领先者。2009年6月底,美国与该病毒相关的死亡人数也超过了所有其他国家。

              6月25日,疾控中心发布的信息显示,美国可能有100多万病例,其中大部分没有报告或诊断。

              ***

              不过当年年底(2019.12.10)美国CDC就发布了大幅提高的新数据(虽然仍不是最终结果):

              Swine flu has killed 10,000 Americans since April

              December 10, 2009, CHICAGO (Reuters) - Swine flu has killed nearly 10,000 Americans, including 1,100 children and 7,500 younger adults, and infected one in six people in the United States since arriving last April, health officials said on Thursday.

              “What we’ve seen for months is this is a flu that is much harder on younger people,” Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told a media briefing.

              He estimated that between April and November 14 there had been nearly 50 million cases of H1N1 influenza in the United States, mostly in younger adults and children. That was more than double the CDC’s estimate in November of 22 million Americans.

              Frieden said more than 200,000 Americans had been hospitalized — about the same number who are affected by seasonal flu in an entire year.

              “About 15 percent of the entire country has been infected with H1N1 influenza, or about one in six people,” Frieden told a media briefing.

              *** 2009.12.10, 芝加哥(路透社)-卫生官员周四表示,自去年4月抵达美国以来,猪流感已导致近1万名美国人死亡,其中包括1100名儿童和7500名年轻人,并感染了美国六分之一的人。

              美国疾病控制和预防中心主任托马斯·弗里登(Thomas Frieden)博士在媒体吹风会上表示:“我们几个月来看到的是,这是一种对年轻人来说要严重得多的流感。”

              他估计,在4月至11月14日期间,美国有近5000万例H1N1流感病例,大部分发生在更年轻的成年人和儿童中。这是疾控中心11月份估计的2200万美国人的两倍多。

              弗里登说,已有20多万美国人住院-大约相当于一年中受季节性流感影响的人数。

              弗里登在媒体吹风会上说:“全国大约有15%的人感染了H1N1流感,或者说大约每六个人中就有一个人感染了H1N1流感。”

              ***

              虽然CDC的总感染数是根据数学模型估计的(因为大多数轻症患者一般不去看医生的,就呆在家里自愈了),住院病例(大概对应于中国这次的重症病例)和死亡人数应该没有什么水分。

              通宝推:桥上,
            • 家园 美国这个10万人的数据仅仅是感染人数的一小部分

              如果你看09年的流感数据,美国的数据上是有星号的:仅限实验室检测样本

              各国检测水平和检测范围不同,所以整体死亡率有极大的区别:

              墨西哥:70,715确诊,1,316死亡,死亡率1.86%

              美国:113,690确诊*,3,433死亡,死亡率3.02%

              中国大陆:120,940确诊,800死亡,死亡率0.66%

              法国:1,980,000确诊,344死亡,死亡率0.017%

              意大利:3,064,933确诊,244死亡,死亡率0.008%

              印度:33,783确诊,2,024死亡,死亡率5.99%

              很显然除了法国和意大利,其他人都少测了。所以死亡率都显得高。这与什么时候开始的没有关系,比如美国比墨西哥晚爆发,印度比中国晚爆发,前者死亡率都高过后者,印度更是比中国高了差不多10倍。病毒的变异不足以解释意大利和印度死亡率之间3个数量级的差别。很显然这是检测能力和检测范围的不同造成的。美国CDC后来的估计是:57 million左右感染,11,690死亡,这样算起来才是0.02%的死亡率。所以你那个10万人的说法离实际情况偏差也太大了,那只是实际感染人数的千分之二,也就是说,一千个病人里面只有两个样本被实验室确定了。

              这次武汉的高死亡率是下面三个因素的作用:1. 武汉外面的人的旅行能力比较高,一般年纪比较轻,身体也比较好;2. 危重症需要Intensive Care,外面资源相对充裕;3. 最重要的原因还是武汉检测能力有限,很多轻症没有检测就扛过去了,分母少了死亡率看起来就高很多。

              因为武汉很多轻症自愈以后再也不会出现在确诊数据里面,所以这次的死亡率还是按武汉之外的数据来定更为可靠。

          • 家园 美国人真皮实,同时盼着中国人别这么皮实

            那会儿我在纽约。一般公众没人隔离、没人戴口罩。没有航班停飞、没有城市被封。全社会淡定得很。更没有任何国家禁止美国公民入境。轮到中国出现类似疫情,美国政府和媒体怎么就如临大敌了?What gives?

            幸灾乐祸、煽风点火、推波助澜、落井下石有木有?华尔街日报刚刊登了标题耸人听闻的文章《中国才是真正的亚洲病夫》,借题发挥又把中国崩溃论拎出来贩卖一遍,预言中国垮了世界就会返回美国一超独霸。透着屏幕都能听出那兴奋的奸笑声、看出那渴望的邪恶眼神。当然,这都是题中应有之义,本性使然嘛。

            其实,中国人民根本不用恐慌。100年前美国在崛起之中不也在大萧条中挣扎了多年,后来还打了世界大战。中国即便发生除瘟疫之外的大危机,也止不住上升的势头。老美各种明里暗里拦阻打压,能使中国局面更加困难,但对大趋势是无可奈何的,倒使中国人民更快抛弃对他们的幻想,自立自强。

            奇文共赏(节选):

            China Is the Real Sick Man of Asia

            --Its financial markets may be even more dangerous than its wildlife markets.

            By Walter Russell Mead

            Feb. 3, 2020

            ......Epidemics also lead us to think about geopolitical and economic hypotheticals. We have seen financial markets shudder and commodity prices fall in the face of what hopefully will be a short-lived disturbance in China’s economic growth. What would happen if—perhaps in response to an epidemic, but more likely following a massive financial collapse—China’s economy were to suffer a long period of even slower growth? What would be the impact of such developments on China’s political stability, on its attitude toward the rest of the world, and to the global balance of power?

            China’s financial markets are probably more dangerous in the long run than China’s wildlife markets. Given the accumulated costs of decades of state-driven lending, massive malfeasance by local officials in cahoots with local banks, a towering property bubble, and vast industrial overcapacity, China is as ripe as a country can be for a massive economic correction. Even a small initial shock could lead to a massive bonfire of the vanities as all the false values, inflated expectations and misallocated assets implode. If that comes, it is far from clear that China’s regulators and decision makers have the technical skills or the political authority to minimize the damage—especially since that would involve enormous losses to the wealth of the politically connected.

            We cannot know when or even if a catastrophe of this scale will take place, but students of geopolitics and international affairs—not to mention business leaders and investors—need to bear in mind that China’s power, impressive as it is, remains brittle. A deadlier virus or a financial-market contagion could transform China’s economic and political outlook at any time.

            Many now fear the coronavirus will become a global pandemic. The consequences of a Chinese economic meltdown would travel with the same sweeping inexorability. Commodity prices around the world would slump, supply chains would break down, and few financial institutions anywhere could escape the knock-on consequences. Recovery in China and elsewhere could be slow, and the social and political effects could be dramatic.

            If Beijing’s geopolitical footprint shrank as a result, the global consequences might also be surprising. Some would expect a return of unipolarity if the only possible great-power rival to the U.S. were to withdraw from the game. Yet in the world of American politics, isolation rather than engagement might surge to the fore. If the China challenge fades, many Americans are likely to assume that the U.S. can safely reduce its global commitments.

            So far, the 21st century has been an age of black swans. From 9/11 to President Trump’s election and Brexit, low-probability, high-impact events have reshaped the world order. That age isn’t over, and of the black swans still to arrive, the coronavirus epidemic is unlikely to be the last to materialize in China.

            • 家园 美国人的自大傲慢已经病入膏肓了

              这种舆论短期内会让世界各国产生对中国的恐慌,但是长远来看除了会让中国人甚至黄种人认清楚美国人的真面目,让其他人从内心深处对美国产生疏离感和厌恶感,什么作用都起不到,根本就是蠢的一逼的骚操作。将来美国墙倒众人推的时候,这样的报道就是最好的催化剂。

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