主题：来吧，都看看别人现在怎么看我们吧。 -- 锦候
我看了这给新闻觉得很难接受，刚好有人在讨论就跟了贴。说道德观和欺骗的问题。
结果有人说这个是个演出只要老外看不出来就行了，达到宣传的效果就好了。自己人的道德观可以不理。
我就说那就看看老外是怎么看我们的吧，这个帖子的连接还是我在讨论的最后在子矜的帖子里看到的。你可以看一下整个过程。
结果这个帖子一出来，那些人又说，你怎么那么洋奴以洋大人的意见为根据，自己的意见哪？
现在已经是在讨论我是如何窝囊的在洋大人的压迫下苟延残喘了。
有些人什么时候都有道理，也是很可怕的事情。
其实为这点小事争论确实没啥意义，不过却从这点小事看出河里不少ID的见识来，有好些我以前认为挺有见识的河友。
善意提醒一下，河里的海外的筒子们，不要被老外给忽悠了，这么一件是非曲直根本没有争议的破事，河里却吵翻天，唉，现在的西西河已经不是当初的西西河了。
很可惜的看到某些童子已经被老外给绕进去了，有忏悔的，有辩解的，还有在反省的，因为认为这事是假唱，不占理，其实呢，首先要明白一点，这根本就不是假唱，无可指摘，理直气壮。
至于为何不是假唱，河里的诸多朋友已经给出了充分的说明，图文并茂，希望那些一时犯迷糊的童子们好好想想，早日醒悟。
老兄的心情我能理解, 所谓爱之深, 责之切. 所以我下面说说我的看法. (河里有些人目睹开幕式盛况, 我国健儿夺金英姿时不发一言, 倒对尚未确认的问题大加指责,对这些人我是无话可说). :-)
其实我是不大赞成今年举办奥运会的, 自己的事情太多, 敌人又控制了国际主流媒体. 想要在西方国家中树立我国正面形象, 多交几个朋友并不容易. 但现在看来, 效果比我想象的要好很多. 首先大量的外国人来到中国, 他们中很多人不再会轻易受西方反华媒体的影响. 在我工作的大学, 这次就有几个美国人去了北京. 其中一个这几天发了几次邮件给全实验室, 盛赞北京和他遇到的当地人. 其次对于反华势力, 无论我们做得多好, 远超以前各届, 他们一定会回避我们的成绩, 强调我们的不足, 毕竟negative是容易的. 我们的奥运会能使一些人转变观点固然好, 不成的话把敌人吓住也不错 - 这个我们应该是做到了. :-)
至于伴唱和焰火, 现在很清楚了. 两个小姑娘的名字都在节目单上; 焰火一个不少. 至于那些外媒, 我觉得不必介意. 一来: 别人的看法是别人的事, 与我无干; 二来: 失败者抱怨, 胜利者才不在乎. :-)
送花一朵, enjoy our party!
从对奥运会的态度，到这件事情的态度。难得，花！
您像我一样，有时看了不平就要先吼一嗓子，但我觉得这次您吼的早了，音乐总监的话也只能代表他自己，国外媒体的话只能看看再说。谢谢您发现情况没有想象中那么糟糕。
正准备回复突然看见兄的贴子,花一个!
硫磺岛上几个哥们举旗子那张也是后来补照的吧？这可是新闻照片啊！咋感觉好像这“造假”是咱中国人先发明的，没听说除了四大还有这个啊？
老麦还有美国兵哥哥莫不是现代人看过奥运开幕式以后穿越回去的？
而且我也没说我认为你
从来不趟惹争拗话题的浑水，但看了lz略带委屈的回帖，还是忍不住说两句题外话。
本身方块字简单码在一起就易出歧义，若语意表达不够清晰，那么挨点河里的理性批判就是正常事了。
说说lz帖子：
关于题目来吧，都看看别人现在怎么看我们吧。
“缺乏自信自尊、略带孩子气”，这是我第一次看到帖子题目时的反应。以平常心来看这题目，似乎lz只是想提醒大家关注一下外媒对奥运的看法，只是忽略了语言歧义问题。日常口语通过环境背景的配合可以化解歧义问题，避免歧解；但将脱离环境背景的口语直接放在纸面上，结果可能如何，lz帖子已给答案了。
题目最好简洁扼要、有概括性、语意明确。
这是帖子里唯一的话题内容，在我看来，文字中的倾向性应该是非常清晰的了。光凭“我们的信用本来就这么低”这句就得挨大板子，当然若lz是MM的话则可免（擅撒娇的MM常用混乱语言来吸引注意力）。
关于批判的话就不用多说了，回帖里已是满满，还是说点文字细节。
“我们”一词不能随便用的，除非“我”可以代表“我们”，但lz连续用了三个“我们”，这种情况在总书记报告里能常见一些。“我们的信用本来就这么低”本身就包含着“我的信用本来就这么低”的意思，不知道这是lz本意否？
“（我们）这种场合都可以deception”中的“deception”一词或许只是西人的看法，lz直接拿来扣在自己头上，完全就是一个不打自招的语言表达，让人有点困惑不解。
lz短短几行方块字招来了如此多的回话，如果不是语言文字上有非凡造诣，那肯定就是话题上有过多是非。是无心所致还是有意而为，或许没人能知。但河里的批评大多都是善意的，这点我相信。
最后想给lz提个醒，个人的思想认识总会通过自己的文字暴露出来的，要么虚心摆出闻过则改，要么就啥也别说。
“要论中国人，必须不被搽在表面的自欺欺人的脂粉所诓骗，却看看他的筋骨和脊梁。自信力的有无，状元宰相的文章是不足为据的，要自己去看地底下。” 拿先生的话共同学习一下。
过去中国人就没有失去过自信力，今日中国人的自信也更非十年前可比了，希望lz常回家看看。
A speck in China's eye.
We should deal with the proverbial log in our own eye first. North American media is rife with fakes - lip synching (Those "live" concerts that sound so great? Half the time they're not so "live", either.), photoshopped ads (I saw two ads featuring Scarlett Johannson in the same magazine; in one her beauty mark was visible, and gone in the other). It's time we stopped being critical of others' shortcomings and fixed our own first. Besides, attention should be on the accomplishments of the athletes, who have trained for years for the Olympics.
Posted by Sora Chan at 5:04 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 4 | Disagree 3 | Offensive
re: Saving Face
Like it or not, saving face has been a Chinese culture, not exclusive to Chinese Dictatorial Party, way before England was a country and before Europe started to have civilization. It is not false that "a government is judged mature..... how it deals with its (not it's) mistakes and problems ...." So, perhaps China should have enlisted/retained the expertise of the American/Canadian spin-docs!!!
Posted by shogun at 5:04 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 2 | Disagree 1 | Offensive
Olympics = Sports?
The media that i've been following seems to be making such a big deal over all the politics and deceptions that seem to be going on over there. Ahem, what about the... SPORTS?? Afterall, isn't that what the Olympics is all about? The opening show was just that.. a show - a performance. Lip synching - think pretty much every bubblegum pop act in the last 15 years - and live 'post' production - think post waredrobe malfunction Superbowl halftime shows - happens everywhere around the world all the time, so enough already. I applaud both girls for their performance in what was a fun show to watch. Enjoy the next two weeks for what they really are, a celebration of sport. Not for what the media wants you to 'perceive' about China. I for one will enjoy the sports of the next two weeks and worry about international relations in the 4 years between Olympic games thank you very much (excluding during NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, Euro and International soccer games of course)!
Posted by big_papa_p at 5:00 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 2 | Disagree 3 | Offensive
Fake footage
So what? Even NBC did it themselves. They shuffled the footage of athletes entering the ground so that the US entered the prime moment. At least the lip-syncing is discovered by Chinese media themselves.
Posted by SYSS Mouse at 4:57 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 3 | Disagree 3 | Offensive 1
How many medals have you earned so far Canada? (none!)
What outraged me the most is that does this story have to be the most important new of the day? It was on the cover of both Toronto Star and National Post. Why don’t you focus more on your own country’s business? Correct me if I’m wrong, it’s Day 3 of the Olympics, and Canada doesn’t even have one medal yet, not even a bronze!! Sure, an Ashely Simpson pull is not right, but can’t you just accept the fact that China is one of the powerhouse in the world, and where does Canada stand? Nowhere!
Posted by saiyao at 4:52 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 7 | Disagree 3 | Offensive
IN CASE YOU PEOPLE FORGOT
Do you remember a few years ago Britney Spears did lip-synch for MTV and Hollywood did the same thing some of shows or movies? Don't blame China Government, They had nothing to do with it. It's the director's idea just like the Hollywood would do the same thing! The fireworks are fake? I don't about that. I had see it myself and it's real enough.
Posted by 10 of 9 of borg at 4:43 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 6 | Disagree 4 | Offensive
It does matter
If China is aiming to be a world leader then they better be more fortright in their dealings with the rest of the world. This case may seem trivial to some but it does reflect how the Chinese accomplishes things. They do a lot of shortcuts for whatever reason - national glory, national image, etc.
Posted by enbs at 4:33 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 3 | Disagree 5 | Offensive 1
Re: JNanu
If the Western media is going to focus on stories like these about people being selected on the basis of their appearance, then perhaps they should start off by focusing on the things that happen right here at home in North America. Disney theme parks are notorious for selecting "pretty" and young people to work on the park grounds, whereas all the "old" or "ugly" workers are assigned to cart off trash or things like that in underground tunnels so that visitors coming to the park don't see anything "unsightly". Selecting someone on the basis of physical appearance occurs ALL the time in Western countries, but you don't see people screaming about dishonesty or immorality when they see it here. These stories should not get more attention over human rights or pollution.
Posted by Pallas Athena at 4:24 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 5 | Disagree 3 | Offensive
Gotta understand the intention (2or2)
... From what I see, acrificing individual for the society is deeply embedded in the Chinese people's mindset. I don't think an ordinary Western people can understand this. But we can't really say this is wrong. This is just how things work over there. This is all about culture difference between the Chinese and the westerners. Again, IMO, I think this move the Chinese officials are doing is completely unnecessary and they are just doing too much. But saying they are "wrong" is "wrong".
Posted by JL at 4:19 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 3 | Disagree 2 | Offensive
Gotta understand culture difference (1 of 2)
First, I want to set thing straight to say I do not agree with the idea of combining the best voice and best face to the show. This is completely necessary. But instead of just pointing finger to the Chinese of bringing deception to the game, shouldn't we understand the motivation behind it? After talking to my friends in Beijing about this, I realized this is not even a news over there, obviously not a scandal at all. This is how things work, according to them. In their mind, running this Olympic game is all about "sacrifice", in order to make it to perfection. Just to name a few: Factory workers have to stop working in the duration of the game to reduce smog; Local people had to move out of their home to make room for stadiums; Drivers are banned from driving their cars every other day, etc. So, these 2 girls lip-sync incident is just one of the small sacrifice that had to made so to perfect the opening ceremony. TBC...
Posted by JL at 4:19 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 5 | Disagree 2 | Offensive
Honestly? Scandalous?
Who cares if the footprints were pre-taped? Who cares if the kid was lip-synching? The real news is the 'pretty kid' scares me. That plastered on smile ain't right. But honestly, people lip-synch all the time. Superbowl, Saturday Night Live, national anthems, whatever. It's so funny to me that people are so indignant, like they have been defrauded or something. 99% of the opening ceremonies were real, live and stunning.
Posted by clementine at 3:04 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
Agree 9 | Disagree 4 | Offensive
Loser's mindset
Not to my surprise that the STAR did not miss such a GOLDEN opportunity to demonize China. So, there is a lip-sync, what is the bid deal? Have you ever seen "AIR FARCE LIVE" on CBC? Did you notice every once a while the audience applauded like crazy. Well, it was "fake". I've been to the studio as an audience. We applauded because the director asked us to do so. And there was even an illuminated sign "applause" overhead to instruct us when to applause. To Canada, it is just technical issue to achive a better showmanship. To China, it is now blown out of proportion to an ethic issue. Talking about hypercritical.
Posted by yichen at 2:35 PM Wednesday, August 13 2008
我要表达的是厌恶呀，我对现在这种情形及其厌恶。真假不分的厌恶，爱国的人用自己的行动在糟蹋自己的国家的厌恶。
你如果真的要讨论这件事情，或者教育我一下，你最起码要下了解一下整个事情的发展过程，不是用这一个帖子来作判断。也不难，在我的家园博客，点一下所有贴就可以看到我的所有回帖了。
看了你的帖子这种厌恶感更深，因为你的文章中表现出来路子，就是和为双簧叫好的人一样，不需要调查，不需要标准，有的就是激情。激情地对错不分，激情到真假不分，激情到不顾事实。你看看给我的回贴中有多少人说我故意作众人皆醉我独醒状，根本就看不到同一个帖子内就有人和我的观点一致，我特意又查了别的帖子，在我之前就已经有人在说欺骗了，不能容忍了。而这些攻击我的人根本连基本的资料收集都没有做，就做了结论，只有我一个人是这种观点。
你根本就对这件事情没做过任何深入的了解，对我个人也没有了解，就给我作总结，我是什么什么样的人，我怀有什么什么样的心理，我以后应该怎么做。你哪怕是花几分钟只是看看我以前的帖子也大概会对这些有典了解。
你这么浮躁，如此轻浮你的分析又怎么能准确？你的意见又怎么能被人接受？
你要是30以下，那还是个大孩子，你要真的想知道对中国和中国人，我以前怎么做，现在怎么做，你看看这次我的帖子就知道大概了。这点工夫都不下，就故作深沉的写这种分析文章？想要说话有道理可以，但是要下功夫，这类的文章我写了不少，但是没有一个是拍脑袋出来的。
你要是40以上，那你确实需要考虑一下自己的行文方法，这个帖子对你来说还是太老气横秋了，我知道当我到了这个年纪的话，错了就很难看。
很抱歉你的帖子我看了，4，5遍才看完，确实觉得你做了和自己的实际能力和对事物的了解程度不相符一件事。
本帖一共被 2 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
认为他们“对”?
照这么说，有白人犯错就该杀死所有白种人？
一个人有很多种属性，眼睛盯着国籍（还是靠自己猜的，所谓亚洲面孔）算不算种族歧视？
你的道德观就不包括不种族歧视？
如果你在国外牢牢守住了自己的道德观，为什么你的老板或朋友们没有因此而认为中国人都是有道德的？既然他们习惯于以一个中国人的行为来标签所有中国人？
不客气的说，你觉得他们对、觉得无法忽视他们的“意见”（哪里是意见，杀死所有中国人叫什么意见？根本是恶意），其实是被长达10年的种族歧视折磨得丧失了种族自信心了。就像被长期虐待的妇女，你会奇怪她们为什么不离婚、不逃跑、不抗争，其实不是每个这样的妇女都没有机会逃跑或离婚，很大的一个原因是长期的受虐已经摧毁了她们的自尊和自信了。