五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:钱学森逝世 -- GPRS

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家园 航空,还要同时材料等配套方面也有呢

我是不是太贪心了。

家园 哀悼
家园 是否申请加入美国国籍不应当成为焦点

钱老在美国待了20年,如果说对美国没有一丝一毫的认同感是不可能的。1947年的时候钱老回国,那时候正是国共内战,局势并不明朗,对国家认同感到困惑甚至迷茫也是很正常的事。1949年以后,蒋介石的中华民国换成了新中国,而钱老同新中国的所有联系恐怕就是1937年的时候参加过学习《反杜林论》的小组。而这个小组也在1938年解散了。也就是说,新中国对钱老是一个完全陌生的形象,甚至同中华民国相比,未必能说清楚对那一方的认同感更强。我们也不能过分苛求钱老。

钱老对“新中国”的认同应该是在回国以后逐渐起来的。甚至是在改开以后也没有完全动摇。这里的“新中国”指的是主席总理那一代人的新中国,而主席总理的个人魅力也起了很大的作用。有几件小事还是很能说明问题的。

大概60年代的时候,钱老主动要求减低自己的待遇,减少警卫保姆。这一做法很为主席赞同。主席提出这是一个榜样。这同《往事并不如烟》的毛巾只用两个星期,没有受到演出票就大发雷霆形成了很强烈的对比。

改开以后中美友好,伟大的胡乱邦同志劝钱老访美,“世界在变,中国在变,美国也在变。几十年前的事,过去了就算了,不必老记在心上”。钱老回答是“总书记,当年我回国的事很复杂,在目前这种情况下我不宜出访美国。”,这其中固然有钱老自尊心非常强,因为当年的事对美国政府耿耿与怀,不向美国政府示好。另一方面,也说明钱老对美国并不放在心上,可以说有的只有对“新中国”的认同,而完全没有对美国的认同了。相比之下,从来没有申请过美国国籍的袁隆平袁老,在接受采访的时候提到自己最看重美国科学院院士这个荣誉。

下面这一段说明钱老的民族自信心。

1955年秋末冬初,我回到祖国不久,在科学院工作。科学院领导说:“你刚回来先去看看中国的工业吧,中国工业最好的是东北。”我说东北我还没去过。就这样到东北去学习。后来转来转去到了哈尔滨,在哈尔滨安排我跟军事工程学院的院长陈赓大将见面。陈赓接见了我,还吃了顿晚饭。陈赓问我:“中国人能不能搞导弹?”我说:“为什么不能搞!外国人能搞,我们中国人就不能搞?难道中国人比外国人矮一截!”陈赓大将说:“好!”后来人家告诉我:陈赓那天上午从北京赶到哈尔滨就是为了晚上接见我,我听了很感动。

钱老是把自己当成了军人,对“体制改革”看来有一定不同意见。

  那时中央专委的决定,要哪一个单位办一件什么事,那是没有二话的。决定也很简单:中央专委哪次哪次会议,决定要你单位办什么什么,限什么时间完成,…… 也不说为什么,这就是命令!中央专委的同志拿去,把领导找来,命令一宣读,那就得照办啊!好多协作都是这样办的,有时候铁路运输要车辆,一道命令,车就发出来了。没这套怎么行呢!千军万马的事,原子弹要爆炸,导弹要发射了,到时候大家不齐心怎么行呢!按电纽那么好按呀?按一下全国都有影响,都要跟上动作啊!当然,现在我们国家正在进行一系列体制改革,什么都用指令是不行的,但可以搞合同嘛,那也是合同说到的就要做到的呀。

有人分析认为搞“两弹”是个错误的是先富,还有人得出结论是胡服。不管怎么说,这个错误恐怕无论如何是算不到太祖头上了吧。

  现在有那么一些误解,认为搞“两弹”是个错误,花那么多钱,没有用来发展生产。这还不是个别人的意见。我总是解释说:“不是这样的。首先,我们搞‘两弹’花钱比外国少,因为有党的领导,具体就是周恩来总理和聂帅在领导我们。再就是中国科技人员的优秀品质,所以完成了这个任务,损失最小,花费最少。”。。。。。。。我还说:“你说不该搞,那好;如果不搞,没有原子弹、导弹、人造卫星,那中国是什么地位!你要搞经济建设也不可能,因为没有那样的和平环境。”我们这些搞国防科学技术的,听到这些不正确的议论很有意见。

通宝推:Wjwu,秋末冬初,猫猫狗狗,
家园 钱老是一个相当有深度的人

不只是学术水平高,实践能力强,关键还在于这人是有思想的,他的思想和毛泽东时代的大潮是吻合的,而和西方的那些所谓普世的意识形态有深刻的区别——一个真正资深的科学家是不可能被那些东西忽悠的。

有时间倒是很想读读他的控制论和系统论方面的著作。

另外钱老强调的学理工科的需要加强人文艺术素养也是值得深思的一点。

家园 转一篇美国人的文章

有很多很有意思的线索。当然美国人在这里表现了他们一贯的自大,认为所有外国人,包括中国人也好,匈牙利人也好,到美国都是为了追寻“美国梦”,他们大概不能理解中国人对中华民族的认同要远远大于对“美国梦”的追寻。

“两个月后钱引起了官员的注意。在收到他得病的父亲的新之后,他试图回中国呆一段时间。。。。。尽管在几个月前申请了美国公民,官方不能确信钱会回到美国。有一些文件过于敏感了。他们拒绝让他回去。”

这段话让人感觉好像钱老申请美国公民是为了能让美国政府放心的让他回去。而美国政府的主要原因是害怕钱老“滞中不归”。。。。

“在毛1976年逝世之后,钱支持江青以及四人帮。当钱曾经公开批评过的邓小平掌握权力之后,钱只剩下空的头衔。直到1989年他支持平息动乱,才部分的回归。”

看来美国人认为钱老同先富不够和谐。

这里还提到钱老的女儿钱永真在美国弗吉尼亚当急救护士。文章里的Iris Chang 就是写南京大屠杀的张纯如。

文章太长,最后一段“spy or victim”就略去了。

CHINA'S NEW FRONTIER

U.S. threw out man who put China in space

By Michael Cabbage | Sentinel space editor

Posted December 11, 2001

Space Editor Michael Cabbage spent two weeks in China in mid-Septemberresearching this series on the country's growing space program and itslikely impact on the United States. During that trip, he became one of thefirst two Western reporters to interview the head of the China National Space Administration. He also was one of the first U.S. journalists tovisit some of China's aerospace facilities in Beijing and Shanghai. Cabbage has covered space since 1994. He joined the Sentinel's staff in 1998.

BEIJING -- To Chinese graduate student Tsien Hsue-shen, the gatherings at Sidney Weinbaum's California home seemed like typical American parties of the 1930s -- not meetings of Professional Unit 122, Pasadena Section of the U.S. Communist Party.

There were spirited political discussions, music, games and good conversation. The parties provided a needed break every few weeks from the academic grind endured by the 26-year-old aeronautics whiz and two dozen or so Caltech colleagues. Tsien came for the music. He was learning to play the flute.

More than a decade later, those all-but-forgotten get-togethers would turn Tsien's life upside down.

McCarthyism was in full bloom throughout the United States. And no one, not even one of the country's most brilliant rocket scientists -- an Air Force colonel and a founder of what would become NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory-- was above suspicion. Tsien's case set off a chain of events that would forever change the global balance of power.

FBI agents finally got around to confronting Tsien in June 1950. The evidence against him was a 1938 Communist Party membership roster that listed his name. Tsien's denials meant little. His security clearance to work on classified military projects was revoked.

Tsien raised official eyebrows again two months later. After receiving a message from his ailing father, he attempted to leave for an extended visit to China. Customs agents seized eight cases of personal notes and papers Tsien planned to take with him to continue his work while abroad for a year. Despite his application a few months earlier to become a U.S.citizen, authorities weren't convinced Tsien was coming back. Some of the

papers appeared sensitive. They refused to let him go.

The proud Tsien was arrested at home in front of his family several days later and jailed for two weeks by immigration officials. After his release on bail, he was forbidden from traveling outside Los Angeles County. The

charge: He failed to divulge to authorities his membership in the Communist Party when he re-entered the United States in 1947 after an earlier visit to China. Hearings to deport Tsien began under the Subversive Control Act of 1950.

Tsien and his friends never were accused of doing anything more serious than discussing left-wing politics.

"All you have to do is witness one of these hearings to know how ridiculous they are," said Frank Marble, a Caltech professor and friend of Tsien's who attended every hearing. "Justice was not one of the objects. There was no credible evidence."

The government, however, had a dilemma. While immigration officials were trying to kick out Tsien, a State Department directive forbade aliens whose technical expertise might jeopardize national security from leaving the country.

It took five years to resolve the issue. Undersecretary of the Navy Dan Kimball, a friend of Tsien's, was adamantly against deportation.

"I'd rather shoot him than let him leave the country," Kimball joked to others. "He knows too much that's valuable to us. He's worth five divisions anywhere."

Little did Kimball know that Tsien would one day be regarded as the father of China's space industry.

Destined for brilliance

Tsien -- whose given name, Hsue-shen, means "study to be wise" -- was a natural, one of those students who always instantly got it.

The son of a teacher, he was born in Hangzhou, China, in 1911, the same month the 2-century-old Qing Dynasty collapsed. After a stellar high-school career in Beijing, Tsien graduated first in his class from Shanghai's Jiaotong University in 1934 with a degree in mechanical engineering. He was going to build locomotives.

Tsien, however, became obsessed instead with machines that fly. China had little to offer in the infant field of aeronautics, so he set his sights abroad. Tsien competed against the best and brightest in China's

universities for a coveted scholarship to attend graduate school in the United States -- and won. By 1936, he had earned a master's degree in aeronautical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and then enrolled in the California Institute of Technology's doctoral program.

Caltech's star-studded faculty included Theodore von Karman, a Hungarian immigrant dubbed "the father of the supersonic age" and considered one of the world's leading authorities in the field. Von Karman took the young Chinese student under his wing. The hard-working Tsien wasted little time making the transition from von Karman's student to colleague.

"Von Karman regarded him as one of the best students he had ever had," said William Pickering, another Caltech pioneer who guided creation of the first U.S. satellite.

After earning his Ph.D. in 1939, Tsien joined the Caltech faculty. His students remember a taskmaster who could devastate pupils and colleagues alike with withering critiques. His impatience with those who didn't

measure up intellectually was mythic. Legend has it Tsien's unhappiness with one class prompted him to write a completely new textbook that even the most brilliant students could barely comprehend.

"He was very impressed by people who could really perform at a high level," said Iris Chang, author of a Tsien biography titled Thread of the Silkworm."He was very dismissive of those who couldn't make the cut."

Tsien's interest in flying machines had spread to rockets by the late 1930s. He occasionally joined a group of other Caltech grad students nicknamed the Suicide Squad on trips to test primitive rocket engines in a canyon several miles from campus. What began as a hobby attracted attention from the Pentagon after the U.S. entered World War II.

The Army created a rocket-development branch in 1943, and the next year von Karman, Tsien and another colleague won a contract to design some of the

first long-range ballistic missiles. After standard checks, Tsien had received a high-level security clearance in 1942. The group's work took place at the newly formed Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.

As World War II wound down, Tsien was made a colonel in the U.S. Army Air Forces and sent to Europe in 1945. His mission: Size up the German V-2 rocket program developed by Hitler's Third Reich.

There, he met and interviewed young Wernher von Braun, the V-2 project's technical director who one day would become the visionary behind the Saturn V rocket that put America on the moon. During their meeting, Tsien asked

von Braun to put down on paper German breakthroughs and future space goals. The resulting report is credited with helping inspire development of the first U.S. satellites.

After the war, Tsien became the youngest full professor on the faculty at MIT. During a 1947 visit to see his family in China, he met Jiang Ying, a glamorous aristocrat who studied music in Germany and was one of China's most celebrated young sopranos. Her father -- a military adviser for Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist government -- was helping wage a civil war aimed at

crushing Mao Tse Tung's communist rebels.

The couple married later that year and moved back to America. When Tsien re-entered the United States in Honolulu, he reflexively answered "no" to a question on an immigration form asking whether he had ever belonged to a group advocating overthrow of the U.S. government.

Mao's communist insurgents finally won the bitter war in China and took power in April 1949. A world away, Tsien returned to Caltech's faculty two months later as more than just one of the planet's foremost experts on

aeronautics.

He was the living embodiment of the American dream. Tsien had it all: a prestigious, well-paying job. A glamorous wife and growing family. Lots of friends and dinner parties. A house in the suburbs.

Tsien decided to make it official in mid-1949. He applied to become a U.S.citizen.

Return to China

By 1955, five years of virtual house arrest had turned Tsien's American dream into a nightmare.

The evidence presented against him during the deportation hearings was, to be charitable, underwhelming. No witness could say for sure whether Tsien had been a member of the Communist Party. There were no official party records connecting him to the group. The case hinged on a single membership list in the handwriting of police investigators, who claimed they had copied the names from other documents. Tsien steadfastly maintained his innocence.

Nevertheless, immigration officials ruled Tsien had lied on the immigration form when he re-entered the country in 1947 and was a communist subject to expulsion. The government spent the next four years debating what to do

with him. Finally, Tsien was notified in 1955 that he was going back to China. His departure was part of a negotiated swap of Chinese scientists in the United States for Americans captured during the Korean War and held in China.

Frustrated and increasingly bitter about his treatment, Tsien was more than ready to go. One can only imagine his resentment as he, his wife and their two small children -- both U.S. citizens by birth -- boarded a ship at Los Angeles harbor for the three-week trip to China. Before leaving, Tsien addressed the horde of reporters who packed the dock:

"I do not plan to come back. I have no reason to come back. I have thought about it for a long time. I plan to do my best to help the Chinese people build up their nation to where they can live with dignity and happiness."

China fully understood the windfall it was getting. Tsien returned to a conquering hero's welcome. He spent the first few weeks touring the country and reaping accolades. Almost overnight, the government handed him the reins of China's fledgling aerospace and missile programs. He quickly went to work building the industry almost from scratch in a society still living with one foot in the Middle Ages.

There were no research facilities. No modern manufacturing plants. Not even Chinese textbooks in many crucial subjects. More than anyone, Tsien changed that. Four months after his return, he founded Beijing's Institute of Mechanics, specializing in critical defense needs, including missiles, atomic energy, computers and electronics.

Those who worked for Tsien regarded him with almost religious awe.

"Everyone always wanted him to give us lectures," said He Ling Shu, a professor at the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics. "As the first person to start our country's rocket industry, he was very, very

famous."

Progress was slow. But Tsien's return to China did nothing to mellow his perfectionism and impatience with mediocrity.

"He was so far ahead of us, we couldn't even comprehend how far at first," said Luan Enjie, current head of the China National Space Administration.

Tsien had access to China's top leaders, including Mao. That meant access to funding. But there was a price. Friends in America -- who almost universally remember Tsien as someone who shunned politics -- heard from

him less and less. However, his statements began appearing in China's state-run media more and more.

"As long as we are able to act in accordance with Chairman Mao's directives," Tsien was quoted as saying, "victory will surely belong to us."

In 1958, 20 years after a naive young graduate student first played the flute at leftist Sidney Weinbaum's parties, Tsien officially became a member of the Communist Party. He was elected to China's rubber-stamp national legislature later that year.

Rise and fall

With Tsien's guidance and help from Soviet scientists, China's leap from developing backwater to strategic missile power was stunningly swift. The country officially entered the Space Age in 1960 by launching a

Chinese-built knockoff of a Soviet booster.

Four years later, China stunned the West when it detonated an atomic bomb. Tsien was responsible for developing intercontinental ballistic missiles

capable of delivering Beijing's new atomic arsenal around the globe. China successfully tested its first ICBM in 1971. By 1980, China had the ability to rain nuclear bombs on Tsien's former home in Southern California.

Unfortunately for Tsien, his scientific successes were followed by political defeats. The space program was paralyzed in the late 1960s after Mao unleashed the Cultural Revolution to purge the country of "anti-revolutionary, bourgeois" thinking. Technical schools were closed. Scientists were beaten and sent to rural farms for re-education. Even Tsien was briefly stripped of his authority and reduced to a common worker.

After Mao's death in 1976, Tsien backed Mao's widow and the so-called "Gang of Four" in the power struggle that ensued. When Deng Xiaoping -- whom Tsien had publicly criticized -- rose to leadership two years later, Tsien

fell from grace and was reduced to little more than a figurehead. He staged a minor comeback in 1989, when he took a leading role in denouncing the pro-democracy demonstrators who were crushed in Tiananmen Square. The aging Tsien was awarded the title of "State Scientist of Outstanding Contribution," China's highest scientific honor, in 1991.

"The transformation I see is from a pure scientist to a scientific politician," author Chang said. "I don't know if anyone can really judge him because we have no idea the kind of pressure he was under."

Today, Tsien has become something of a recluse, his mobility limited by deteriorating pelvic bones. His wife no longer gives music lessons at their home but still plays the piano to satisfy his love of music. His son Yucon, a computer technologist who earned his master's degree at Caltech in 1988, lives in the same apartment building. His daughter, Yung-jen, returned to her native United States and in recent years has worked as a medical

technician in Virginia.

Despite his advancing age, Tsien still occasionally holds court with China's aerospace leaders in his Beijing apartment building. One of his neighbors is China space administrator Luan.

"He has been in an advisory position for a long time," said Frank Marble, a Caltech professor and Tsien's closest friend in America. "It has been some years since he has done any active research himself. But his opinions are highly sought and very often followed."

Marble, who at 83 still goes to work every day at Caltech, has been in regular contact with Tsien since 1982. Tsien repeatedly has turned down invitations to visit America. But Marble traveled to Beijing last week to participate in a symposium Monday in Tsien's honor. Today, the old friends will celebrate Tsien's 90th birthday.

家园 不能这么说,西西河里爱国的人最多
家园 钱老确实与先富不大和谐

美国人的观察是对的。

钱老的思想比较左,看不上先富,对毛泽东思想倒是五体投地。

先富上台后干的几件事情,尤其是大砍国防科技项目、让军队经商,让钱老很不高兴。他在国防科工委,80年代到90年代和张震寰一起对什么人体科学感兴趣,就是因为没正事可干。

90年代初我刚刚工作,科学院是我的联系单位,听到了钱老的一些事。当时我无法理解,在美国时拜访了钱老参与创立的JPL,知道他的一些事迹,感到他的伟大,现在我更加佩服钱老。

家园 他领导的航天工程在60年代后期就受到影响

他也被逐渐剥夺了权威, 乃至和普通工人没有两样 -- 文章里说的, 不知确否.

家园 我了解的是这样的

三结合运动中他很积极。剥夺权威是不可能的,倒是教出了一些工人学生。

家园 张纯如在她的书里提到

钱老受到叶挺儿子(?)夺权的影响。没有仔细看书的细节。书名叫做《Thread of the Silkworm 》。

家园 钱老是所有海龟的榜样

也是海归啊,工科男所能达到的最高境界

西西河里挺多海归工科男呢

家园 为袁隆平老说句话

相比之下,从来没有申请过美国国籍的袁隆平袁老,在接受采访的时候提到自己最看重美国科学院院士这个荣誉。

这话可能会造成误解。当年袁隆平老评中科院院士被折腾了多少回?所以对被人认可很热切也是有道理的,美国科学院院士相当于被全世界认同科学贡献,这对国内那些评审折腾的是一记耳光。争得就是这口气。王选也是被折腾的厉害。上海有位女院士也是这么着,国内评不上,被美国选为院士。

我以为他们对国家都是没有问题的。我想Emyn兄也是这个意思。

家园 说得好!!!
家园 袁老的贡献是没得说的。

院士那件事也是中科院的问题,或者说,是知识分子文人相轻的老毛病。

多说了这一句话,主要是对中国过去几十年的不自信而有感。按照袁老的成就,美国科学院外籍院士实在算不上什么,或者说,把美国科学院外籍院士作为最高荣誉,袁老是吃了大亏的。袁老是同白春礼一起进的外籍院士。而白春礼在纳米方向的研究,国内至多只能算是“尚属一流”。你可以猜到美国科学院外籍院士的水分有多大。由于院士评选要靠院士提名,全体院士投票,每年入选的院士又非常多。而隔行如隔山,很多时候特别是外籍院士的评选,除了那些众望所归入选之外(比如袁老),有很大一部分是靠政治因素以及人际关系入选的。

华罗庚:(1982)

夏 鼐:(1984)

谈家桢:(1985)

冯德培:(1986)

周光召:(1987)

贾兰坡:(1994)

陈 竺:(2003)

白春礼:(2006)

袁隆平:(2006)

张启发:(2007)

李爱珍:(2007)

大陆的外籍院士至今有11人。这些人入选有不同的原因。

从1980年-1989年,中美正处于蜜月期,美国科学界在中美蜜月期要拉中国一把,所以连续好几年有中国大陆的入选。而入选者更多的可以看作“中国科学‘成就’奖”。这些人毕竟年龄很大了。

1989年以后中美关系冷冻,除了贾兰坡以外无人入选。

2003年以后中美关系日益密切,G2也逐渐成型,让中国大陆有人入选外籍院士又重新提上了日程。袁老入选当然是众望所归。陈竺与白春礼就是以政治身份很浓的中科院副院长入选的。而张启发与李爱珍的入选是有一些名不副实的。至少它们两人的成就在国内也算不上绝对的权威。个人大胆猜测张启发是国内政治因素打造的,而李爱珍是国外拉上的关系。

这里还要提一句的是不能认为国外的机构就不讲政治。中国政府的影响力还是很大的,在传统上中国政府在联合国教科文组织就有很大的影响力,所以陈章良的联合国“青年科学家奖”就不是什么难事。而近几年中美逐渐“同流合污”,中国政府私下运作一下,美国科学院也是要买一个面子的,评一个外籍院士也不是什么难事。毕竟,除了众望所归的院士之外,其他外籍院士的水分本来也很大,给谁都是给吗。也就是说,只要领导愿意的话,想要打造你,外国的荣誉一样可以给你。当然,诺贝尔奖一年只有几个,非常严格,而欧洲又向来看中国比美国看中国还不顺眼,领导对此就无能无力了。

由于中国过去三十年非常不自信,造成了“只有被外国肯定的才是好的”想法。袁老的成就要比外籍院士大得多,受到这种想法影响而自贬身价是不必要的。

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