主题：【求教】美国中产阶级真的这么惨了吗－关于99% -- 田昭明
家园 【求教】美国中产阶级真的这么惨了吗－关于99% 这两天去最近比较火的我们是99%网站（http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/）闲逛了一下，近2000美国人上传举个纸牌子的照片，讲自己的故事。让我吓了一大跳：这些人生活之惨真是想象不到，可以说骇人听闻了。这些曾经的美国中产阶级没工作，没房住，没医保，没钱看病，负债还不起或已经破产（上大学的贷款，看病的账单）。现在大多打零工洗盘子，要打几份工也不能保证吃饭租房和看病，有些女孩和单亲妈妈被迫去跳脱衣舞和做小姐。夸张的是这些都不是什么原来的社会底层（黑人、MSL和非法移民什么的应该更惨，只是不上网，我们看不到），都是正宗的白人，大都有名牌大学的学历，很多都是双学历、硕士、博士等等。有个中文翻译贴：http://bbs.m4.cn/thread-3216056-1-1.html 。
第一次对普通美国人的生活状况有了比较详细的感性认识，如果这些人具有代表性，那与我原来的印象差异太大了，几个严重地没想到：
1、没想到美国的经济危机到这么严重的程度了，找工作这么难，据说2010年应届大学生就业率是15%，而且未来几年看不到解决的办法和希望，那这次危机是长期性的。
2、没想到美国人也是这么勤快的，要比我们勤快。大都是13岁开始打零工，大学期间更要打工，简直都是半工半读了（每周工作20－30小时或更多）。国内的大学生很少这样，我就没刷过盘子，没送过快递。
3、没想到美国人这么老实。这么多中产阶级都没饭吃，没地住，看不了病，竟然不起来革命。象欧洲、英国和非洲都起来打砸抢了，非洲都革命成功了。美国人真是太逆来顺受了，他们不是人人都有枪吗，干嘛不用呢？还是真正的底层（比如黑人）反而生活不错，这些小知识分子的软弱性造成革命性太差？还是黑人还没有发动起来？
那这样看来这次1930年以来的最大的世界经济危机是长期性的，现在才3年，现在还想不出怎样走出危机，最可能是战争。上次1930年的危机导致法西斯崛起，33年希特勒上台，39年开始二次世界大战。这次不知会不会历史重演（让我们祈祷吧，我儿子还太小呢）。这次经济危机对中国绝对是有严重影响的，中国就算是境况最好的，也得重新经历08年那种程度的阵痛。
当然，最关键的一点我也有疑问，会导致结论完全错误，就是这些人不具代表性，只是最惨的一小批人而已，2000人在3亿美国人里面确实不具代表性。河里在美国的人多，最有发言权，说说你们见到的情况呢？这2000人有代表性吗？美国的中产阶级真的这么惨了吗？那些网站可以看到真实全面的情况呢？求教了
关键词(Tags): #美国中产阶级 99%，
本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)家园 中产阶级真是羊毛，那国家剪刀切的啊，没辙。 有日子没来了，IT业的系列完了吗？
家园 惨不惨看承受能力。 惨不惨看承受能力。
只要多数美国老百姓没有揭竿而起，还在温文尔雅地举着小旗子晃荡，就认为他们还可以承受。
现在的“占领华尔街”更像是一场革命秀。
美国人可以去补一补《毛主席语录》的课，再来学习怎么样干革命。
一起复习一下：
“革命不是请客吃饭，不是做文章，不是绘画绣花，不能那样雅致，那样从容不迫，文质彬彬，那样温良恭俭让。革命是暴动，是一个阶级推翻一个阶级的暴烈的行动。”
家园 美国现在真地很惨？不见得。 据最新预估，今年美国汽车销量为1330万辆。按照美国3亿多人口计算，这个数字实在可观。
http://finance.anhuinews.com/system/2011/11/04/004543825.shtml
家园 Urgent: 急需捐款 我打算捐个一两百美元的东西寄过去（只要物不要钱）。可以直接从amazon买了寄过去吗？这样直接点，简单。
Please help by purchasing or donating supplies directly.
Needs
insulated gloves, wool hats, scarves
long underwear / smart wool thermal socks
300 hand warmers, 300 foot warmers
waterproof boots in all sizes
disposable shoe covers
winter coats
hot beverages
thermal heaters
all weather sub-thermal sleeping bags
tarps
all-weather tents
foam padding / insulation for inside of tents
wooden pallets to get tents off the ground
cots to get people off the ground (don't currently have any - could
really use these)
Dropping Off In Person In NYC
Daily until 9pm at the OWS storage space at 52 Broadway Ave, ground floor.
After 9pm at the OWS Comfort Station on the east side of Liberty Square (aka
Zuccotti Park)
Where To Ship
Occupy Wall Street
118a Fulton St
PO Box 205
New York, NY 10038
=============================
http://occupywallst.org/
Urgent: Winter Donation Needs
Posted Oct. 29, 2011, 10:54 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
It's been dumping snow here in NYC all day, high winds and 3 inches of slush
on the ground. With the NYPD and FDNY confiscating six generators on Friday
and this unprecedented October snow, those occupying Liberty Plaza in
downtown NYC are in need of emergency supplies crucial for cold weather
survival (and occupation).
We've made a lot of headway on getting winter gear here in the last 48 hrs
but definitely need more. Please help by purchasing or donating supplies
directly. Winter gear and other necessities can be dropped off in person,
delivered, or shipped.
Needs
insulated gloves, wool hats, scarves
long underwear / smart wool thermal socks
300 hand warmers, 300 foot warmers
waterproof boots in all sizes
disposable shoe covers
winter coats
hot beverages
thermal heaters
all weather sub-thermal sleeping bags
tarps
all-weather tents
foam padding / insulation for inside of tents
wooden pallets to get tents off the ground
cots to get people off the ground (don't currently have any - could
really use these)
Dropping Off In Person In NYC
Daily until 9pm at the OWS storage space at 52 Broadway Ave, ground floor.
After 9pm at the OWS Comfort Station on the east side of Liberty Square (aka
Zuccotti Park)
Where To Ship
Occupy Wall Street
118a Fulton St
PO Box 205
New York, NY 10038
Please show your support for the stalwart occupiers who are braving the
winter storm!
家园 貌似OWS内部已经出现OWS所反对的表面“民主“制度了 http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27479
对细节的控制还真是到位。
家园 看看吧，这些人过的是什么生活 NYC arrest records: Many Occupy Wall Street protesters live in luxury
The Daily Caller – Wed, Nov 2, 2011
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Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City “occupy” more luxurious homes than their “99 percent” rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found.
For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.
Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
Some of the homes where “Occupy” arrestees reside, viewed through Google Maps and the Multiple Listing Service real estate database, are the definition of opulence.
Using county assessors and online resources such as Zillow.com, TheDC estimated property values and rents for 87 percent of the homes and 59 percent of the apartments listed in the arrest records.
Even in the nation’s currently depressed housing market, at least 95 of the protesters’ residences are worth approximately $500,000 or more. (RELATED SLIDESHOW: Opulent homes of the ’99 percent’)
The median monthly rent for those living in apartments whose information is readily available is $1,850.
Of the 984 protesters arrested, at least 797 are white. The median age of “Occupy” protesters taken into custody is 27 years.
Ten demonstrators were arrested more than once. Most of the arrests, it should be noted, were for nonviolent offenses.
The arrest intake documents show that arrestees came to New York from all over the country but particularly from the Northeast.
Criminal charges ranged from “loitering while wearing a mask” and “failure to move along” to “violent behavior” and other more serious charges such as “assault 2 [second-degree assault] caus[ing] physical injury to police [or] firemen.” There was also one charge of “sex abuse 3 [third-degree].” Hundreds were arrested on October 1 for obstructing traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge.
While it would not be fair to conclude that the arrested protesters are fully representative of a movement that is not completely understood, this information forms the most complete snapshot yet of the demonstrations’ more militant participants.
It also reinforces the persistent critique of protesters as entitled, upper-class agitators with few legitimate grievances.
London’s Daily Mail newspaper, for example, recently highlighted signs of wealth among the throngs in Zuccotti Park.
“Sleeping beside the hardcore activists are increasing numbers of wealthy students turning up to make the most of the party atmosphere, drugs and free food,” reporters Paul Bentley and Micela McLucas wrote in October. “While they dress down to blend in, the youngsters’ privileged backgrounds are revealed by glimpses of expensive gadgetry or the absent minded mention of their private schools during heated political debates.”
“I think that it’s accurate to say that our supporters come from all backgrounds,” Patrick Bruner, the operator of OccupyWallStreet.org, a website dedicated to help organize and spread information about the protests, told TheDC when asked about participants from wealthier backgrounds. “That said, a (non-random) survey on our site revealed that our visitors literally are the 99% in regards to economic realities.”
The national median home value of $185,400 reflects U.S. Census statistics from the years 2005 through 2009, the last year data were available.
TheDC was able to estimate home values and apartment rents for 659 of the 972 residences. Thirteen were in university dormitories; six were post office boxes; four were addresses in foreign countries. Many addresses proved to be nonexistent, and a few were not provided to police.
TheDC has elected not to publish personally identifying information.
Gracie Ferrell and Meg Gasvoda contributed reporting to this story.
家园 石述思：美国希望把户口卖给哪些中国人 家园 这篇文章的关键之处在这句话 更严重的是，由于体制性歧视和缺少对个人私权尤其是财产权明确的法治保障，很多富人选择到海外转移资产——这不妨碍他们仍在祖国内地继续其经商行动。这种两栖活法的流行本身令人纠结，也表明中国深层政治体制变革站在艰难的十字路口。家园 这句话在美国政府与中国富人眼中大概没那么重要 只要中国大门是敞开着的，这句话里的问题就是tg自己的事，其他的事都可以用钱解决。
家园 美国需要接受三亿中国移民,否则没救 我在美国的时候,和我的房东讨论这个问题,得到了这个结论.
我们回顾了历史,发现每次美国的大发展都是伴随着大批移民的进入.这次当然需要中国移民进入.而且进入少了还不行,一年引入个五十一百万,很快就被美国人给同化了.得一年引入一千万,连搞三十年,彻底改变美国人口构成的同时彻底改变美国人的精神面貌,尤其是黑人和墨西哥人不爱学习不爱劳动的劣根性.
我房东悲观地认为,如果不能这样大力度地引进中国人,美国就没救了.过些年就全是黑人墨西哥人的天下了,整个国家就没人来建设了,底层人民不会建设,上层的华尔街不用建设,上上下下都好吃懒做不爱劳动没指望了.
家园 美国要想缓过这口气，还要限制老印的流入 老印光说不练，大吹的干活。老印就是在大公司和政府机构这些养闲人的地方，踩着别人才能充大头蒜。（除了IT咨询公司）10人以下的小公司如果雇上两三个老印，在经济危机中都得死两次。只要有动手的活，千万千万别交给老印，中东人都甩他们两条街。
家园 你的另类观点很有趣，符合我朋友的说法。 我的一个朋友外派到圭亚那。那里的人3天2头的罢工。发工资的几天工人突然消失不见，等钱用完了又现身了。现在已经换了3位外派的总经理。因为这些经理们实在不耐这样的状况，都走人了，都说这个国家无可救药。实在可笑地是，经理问这些工人为什么工作态度那么差？他们居然说，再等几年，我就轮到我去USA了，我为什么要卖力在这里工作？