主题：【文摘】北美独立战争: 美国人编出来的神话 -- 李根
家园 学什么都是要钱 没有钱也得有人教啊 你当中国是美国啊 想学啥就能学啥。那中国不早飞天了。就我这社会主义初级阶段的英语都把我消耗的够呛。
When I studied French history, I also spent time learning French. Through the French perspective and texts, I find better understanding of their history than through the English text. I recommend this approach to everyone on this forum. Learning a foreign language could be great fun and is not so difficult at all. AT LEAST SUCH SKILL GIVES YOU THE CAPABILITY TO DE-BRAINWASH WHAT WAS BRAINWASHED INTO YOUR MIND BY THE CHINESE EDUCATION家园 trust me, reading the origin original is hugely helpful.
Chinese business textbooks were very confusing to me when I was in college many years ago back in China. When I switched to the English original, woow, everything became simple and straightforward. It was then that I decide to switch all to English learning.
BTW, language learnings is not expensive, it just requires interest and perseverence. You will understand it if you live in Shanghai and Beijing.
家园 这个我地明白地干活 但我说的我们的资源 教育或知识资源 在我们国家是非常非常匮乏的。这和发达国家的孩子可以全世界旅游，可以根据自己的情趣选择自己前进的方向，可以轻而易举地学上甚至掌握四五门语言，可以轻而易举地获得明师的教诲等等是不可以相提并论的。我高中数学老师每次都要把二分之一等于零点五扯上一两分钟。而且的而且interest and perseverence可能能使我们学好英语或什么别的语言，只要给我们时间，因为那只是技术，给猴子同样多的训练它没准能做的更好。但我们可能永远无法成为爱因斯坦或者级别低的多的多的谋一个领域内的大师或什么家，即使我们可能同样天才。
家园 我们国家是非常非常匮乏的-different exper experience.
I guess maybe it is because that I grew up in Shanghai, while you might not grow up in big cities.
Chinese might be short in teaching resources, but I do believe Chinese are more short in effective teaching methodologies. In China, language learning was made into very boring subject and what is taught in class is mostly useless stuff when you are out of China. while outside China, you will see that it could be really fun!
这和发达国家的孩子可以全世界旅游--not true. Europeans, yes, easy, because it is so easy to cross border. Small nations there. But still not easy to travel outside the European continent. not cheap.
In America, no. Most Americans do not have passports! I teach at a top-50 American private school. My students told me that their first European trip was usually a graduation gift from their parents after they finish their college education.
People who travel extensively are actually Canadians and Australians.
而且的而且interest and perseverence可能能使我们学好英语或什么别的语言，只要给我们时间，因为那只是技术，给猴子同样多的训练它没准能做的更好。但我们可能永远无法成为爱因斯坦或者级别低的多的多的谋一个领域内的大师或什么家，即使我们可能同样天才。
--you will be amazed by the power of interest. I think Chinese education's largest failure is that it pushes knowledge down the throat of kids, making kids hate schooling and hate learning. Education in China is memorization of knowledge.
The word "e-duc-ation" come from Latin. e=out, duc=lead,
Education means lead out the human potential to explore the world, digest knowledge and THINK FORWARD CRITICALLY.
Memorization is the least important part of the education. Knowledge is not equivalent to education.
It was in Europe and America that I found my learning interest. When you are interested in one subject, learning is no longer boring work, it is fun! it is a daily necessity and obsession!
At least in big Chinese cities, resources are not the reason, the key is the lack of interest due to the traditional ways of teaching.
家园 还是有点小分歧 At least in big Chinese cities, resources are not the reason, the key is the lack of interest due to the traditional ways of teaching.如果真是这样，我相信那些绞尽脑汁要和白黑棕老头上床练口语的女孩子会少很多。当然，如果要学习的话，机会和优势是农村和小地方的无穷倍。
这和发达国家的孩子可以全世界旅游--not true. Europeans, yes, easy, because it is so easy to cross border. Small nations there. But still not easy to travel outside the European continent. not cheap.我见过一堆瑞典兄弟，十八九岁，他们半年的时间内逛了22个国家，而只是THIS TIME。我是福建人，大伙都知道我们老乡怎么坐闷罐车的光荣传统。In America, no. Most Americans do not have passports! I teach at a top-50 American private school. My students told me that their first European trip was usually a graduation gift from their parents after they finish their college education.
People who travel extensively are actually Canadians and Australians.
Education means lead out the human potential to explore the world, digest knowledge and THINK FORWARD CRITICALLY.THINK FORWARD CRITICALLY某种程度上会是灾难性的。在中国，还是老老实实跟着党（领导老师）走才有饭吃，这是我多年革命斗争经验的一个深刻总结。- 复 还是有点小分歧
家园 that's normal. hehe. different people have different experiences. Agree to disagree is a good solution.
FYI, I enjoy our cyberspace debate and appreciate your inputs.
我相信那些绞尽脑汁要和白黑棕老头上床练口语的女孩子会少很多。
--what they want is money, international marriage and greencard. Oral practice might not be the key reason.
I graudated from a foreign-language-focused school. Those great English speakers do not sleep up their language proficiency. Trust me.
At least, as a male, I did not sleep up with old American to improve my language. ^-^
Key advice on improving oral English: more public speech, more listening and more immersion.
家园 thanks for the advice different people have different experiences.美国人搞不好是什么监护权之类的给限制的，否则不让买机票？要不然美国人肯定比加拿大富裕的多。他们洗车洗一天就抵得上第三世界国家的然干半个月甚至一年的。澳大利亚据说是他们要旅游的可以免税，这个我们应该积极地把它变成社会主义优越性不是？what they want is money, international marriage and greencard. Oral practice might not be the key reason.这是严重的资产阶级庸俗化的论调，要严肃批评一下。主要还是口语吗。尤其是考虑到无数亚非拉第三世界的外国友人都遭到一视同仁地不计代价（特别是AIDS）地热情追逐。At least, as a male, I did not sleep up with old American to improve my language.这只能说明你的觉悟还不够。我虽然也没上过床，但“献身精神”还是有的，如果对方是法国小妞的话，英国的也可以，咱不嫌弃。^-^
家园 I learned French in shanghai first exposure was through Qian Jin Educational Institution.
家园 俺懂了，您是早就明白了的，但也得帮助俺们广大受毒害的群众 俺懂了，您是早就明白了的，但也得帮助俺们广大受毒害的群众明白起来啊！
要是俺能早点读到各种版本的历史书，自然也就不会在几年前，还把这个内容很基础很白话的真相文来当宝贝，屁颠屁颠转到西西河给大家看。
拿美国人和美国历史当武器，这也是没有办法的办法。精蝇就吃这个，只有把美国的裙子在群众面前掀一掀（虽然美国人自己经常掀，无奈精蝇统统当作看不见），把事实讲一讲，才能破除迷信，解放思想，顺便把精蝇的偶像崇拜和贩卖私货的代理权打掉。您的见解早就在三楼以上了，俺们还在这里吭哧吭哧地从地下室往一楼爬，您也不能只笑话俺们水平低而不拉一把呀。比如要求俺学第二外语，还是把俺打回高中好吧。
强烈建议搞个多版本的同一段历史的对比介绍，肯定可以起到启迪民智的作用。
家园 为什么给总统献花 没有宝？ 郁闷啊
家园 送花献宝 谢谢：作者意外获得【通宝】一枚鲜花已经成功送出，可通过工具取消
提示：此次送花为此次送花为【有效送花赞扬，涨乐善、声望】
隔壁那位的帖子怎么读起来那么费劲？不中不英，亦中亦英，足矣围观。
家园 A short reply 但也得帮助俺们广大受毒害的群众明白起来啊！
--Buddy, my business is not history education. America is not a cheap or easy place to survive. I need to work my butts off to put bread in my mouth... I never learned Chinese input on PC before and it takes me long time to write one Chinese paragraph on forum. That's why I use English.
BTW, before I read your post, I do not know there are 广大受毒害的群众. No, I am not kidding. Because I was not poisoned.
虽然美国人自己经常掀，无奈精蝇统统当作看不见
--not easy anymore, internet is YOUR tool. 民智已开, nobody can prevent you from accessing multiple perspectives. I often see new perspectives on various issues from my own internet learning. Internet makes me more informed and open-minded. ONe just need to open up his or her mind and search Google or Yahoo or wiki these days.
您的见解早就在三楼以上了，俺们还在这里吭哧吭哧地从地下室往一楼爬，您也不能只笑话俺们水平低而不拉一把呀。比如要求俺学第二外语，还是把俺打回高中好吧
--you sound sort of sarcastic. I am not sure whether you are attacking me here or not. Below is my serious talk:
I have to say language skill is your tool of work/survival and enlightment. You live in States, and should know it well.
比如要求俺学第二外语，还是把俺打回高中好吧--that's too sarcastic. Chinese old proverb is 活到老学到老--do not forget our virtue. I learned Dutch when I was 26, and French when I was 36. They are very close to English, much easier to learn after you have english foundation.
BTW, the dirty trick you mentioned above is NOTHING new. That trick has been practised by the Roman Catholic Church ever since 5th century until 20th century.
Modern English/Dutch/German came into existence around 15th-17th century, ALL DUE TO THE fact that Englishmen/Dutchmen/Germans were fed up with the misleading teaching by Catholic priests. These three languages were created by break-away monks who wanted to spread the true Biblical messages to their compatriots and break the Catholic monopoly over Bible.
Before them, in the West Europe, Bible is only available in Latin, the dead language of Roman Empire. Only priests know this language and only they had access to Bible.
When Bible was translated into English/Dutch/German, even average Joes can easily understand the true messages from God, the dark age was finished and enlightment started.
That's what we called "Reformation"--it shook the world and gave birth to the dynamic protestant nations, such as UK/Nederlands/US/Canada(excluding Quebec)/Australia. The rise of Western World will not happen if there was no reformation.
If you check the PBC empire series, Luther was listed one empire-maker because he helped the creation of German and he translated Bible from Latin(he also consulted the Greek version) to German.
AND THIS REVOLUTION STARTS FROM THE BREAKDOWN OF LANGUAGE MONOPOLY. NOW I HOPE YOU SEE THE POWER OF LANGUAGE.
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fyi, Catholic church services were still performed in Latin in various European nations until 1960 while most of their church-goers in Europe actually did not understand the priest preaching at all.
You are shocked? hehe. Not surprising to me.
Some Chinese live in western society, but often do not truly integrate into it, because they 对学习外语非常抵触. Then you end up live in the 中文 world, which is strictly controlled by CCP Propaganda Dept. When you refuse to learn other people's language, YOU ARE PUTTING UP A WALL BETWEEN YOU AND ANOTHER WORLD/CIVILIZATION/CULTURE.
Who to blame? CCP, Chinese language or yourself?
家园 For reader's info His translation of the Bible into the language of the people (instead of Latin) made it more accessible, causing a tremendous impact on the church (note: birth of protestant movement and destruction of Catholic control in Northern Germany) and on German culture. It fostered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[4] and influenced the translation into English of the King James Bible.[5] His hymns inspired the development of singing in churches.[6] His marriage to Katharina von Bora set a model for the practice of clerical marriage, allowing Protestant priests to marry.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
In 1637, a further important step was made towards a unified language, when the Statenvertaling, the first major Bible translation into Dutch, was created that people from all over the United Provinces could understand. It used elements from various, even Dutch Low Saxon, dialects but was predominantly based on the urban dialects of Holland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language
WRITTEN ENGLISH, GERMAN, DUTCH CAME into existence much late than other latin languages (French, Spanish, Italian). Average Joes in these three countries can speak, but not write either in their own language or Latin. Aristcrats communicate in French and written documents/Bible was in Latin and controlled by monks, who were the best educated people in mid-age Western Europe.
Chinese is like Latin/French--uniformed writing existed VERY VERY earlier, due to the force of Qing Shi Huang. Chinese differ in accents/pronounciation, but unify in writing. Europe IS FAR DIFFERENT FROM US.
That's why many Chinese might not understand my post on forum.
家园 多学门外语当然很不错，可啥事都要扯上CCP就无聊了 Then you end up live in the 中文 world, which is strictly controlled by CCP Propaganda Dept.这个实在是太莫名其妙了。想不想多学几门外语就是个个人兴趣问题，没必要上升到那么高的高度。