五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:【原创】挖坑,也谈谈1959-1961及前后数年 -- 天天向上A

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家园 用批判的眼光独立的做出自己的判断

对别人的文章、言论(特别是网络文章),要用批判的眼光独立的做出自己的判断,亲眼看到的、亲耳听到的、亲身体会的、有意亲身调查的,远比某些自封的“砖家”、“公知”、“精蝇”按有奶便是娘的原则写的文章更贴近历史真相。我亲身经历了那个时代(虽然很小),亲眼看到的、亲耳听到的、亲身体会的、2000年看到此类文章后有意识亲身调查多个省60—70岁的老人,三年自然灾害死的人应少于武斗死亡人数(可能个别省除外),现在70-80岁的老人大多不上网,但把“砖家”、“公知”、“精蝇”的言论当笑话。指鹿为马是暂时的,真相终会真相大白。

家园 恨不能投草

河里面遇到你这种人看到你这样的帖子真是倒霉啊,竟然还有小花11朵,是哪几位仁兄啊?

关于你此贴让人作呕的原因已经有人解释了,我也说不想说太多了,不然被人举报就麻烦了。

缺乏人类关怀的小孩儿被野兽抚养成野兽是很可怜,而一个正常人类社会中成长起来的人缺乏必要的善解人意之心,是一种更为可悲的变异。你就是那种为了证明自己有理可以卖掉自己的人。

家园 leemz2002如是说

清末的人口是4.5亿到5.2亿之间。其中4.5亿是满清的户籍 人口,实际的人口数字肯定比这个数字高。而1954年人口普查发 现1949年的人口是5.4亿。也就是说民国那38年满打满算也 只增加了9千万人。换算成人口增长率只有0.48%而已。在没有 普及避孕手段的年代,自然出生率在3.7%到4.5%之间。也就 是说这38年的平均死亡率至少超过3%,比1949年后死亡率最高的 1960年(2.543%)还高。

家园 How to view Three Years

Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attract. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.

The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.

Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.

In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.

家园 这是一盘妖魔化TG的大棋

刚开始他们诋毁共产党人,我没有站出来说话,因为我不是共产党员;接着他们又诋毁五毛,我没有出来说话,因为我没有干粮;后来他们诋毁共和国,我仍然保持沉默,因为我已经定居海外;最后当他们诋毁整个中华民族的时候,我已经不敢站出来说话了。

通宝推:witten1,

本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
家园 老百姓心里确实都有杆秤

动动脑子就发现公知的良心还不如官员的党性靠谱。

家园 想想阿富汗那鬼地方为什么不停地有人占领?

北朝鲜怀璧其罪,被邻居和黑老大合伙封门要饿死全家,站门口骂几句外人,跟家里人说要冲出去干一家伙,这也不算错吧?

北朝鲜错就错在没有抱紧某共的大腿。

家园 岂止一个错

第一错,擅启战端。当时美军正在撤出南韩。要打仗,好歹等美军全走了再说。美军还没撤走就开打,摆明了不给美国面子,不是找死是什么?

第二错,经济上依赖苏联。苏联一垮台,经济就完蛋了。

第三错,不识时务。大国包围的小国,要么学瑞士保持中立,要么找一根大腿抱着。经济不能独立,哪来政治独立?

第四错,家天下。

家园 https就可访问西西河

其他的试试goagent吧

https://code.google.com/p/goagent

家园 1959年的要点之一是和平时期
家园 那时候U2飞机在天上非,金门还大炮,台湾还反攻大陆,

前有朝鲜战争,后有中印战争,怎么就是和平呢?那时候经济是配给制,配给制实际上就是战时经济制度。

通宝推:夏级核潜艇,
家园 毕竟没有大规模战争

没有大批战争伤亡,没有战争引起的流离失所,没有劳动力不足造成的农田抛荒。

1953年7月抗美援朝战争结束,1953年10月开始粮食统购统销。可见配机制和战争的关系不是那么密切。

家园 新中国再不好老百姓也是生活在和平时代,对吧?

蒋介石再好老百姓也是生活在战乱中,对吧?

在引用leemz2002一段话:

问题的关键是为什么民国那38年战乱不断,老共一上台,战乱就停 了。抗战时中国面对的只不过是个三等列强,还有一大堆,一等二等列强 帮忙。老共上台后几乎大部分时间都在和美苏这样的一等列强对立, 和美苏都交过手。其中很长一段时间都是和美苏两面军事对峙。可就 是没有出现民国时候那样的大规模战乱。共和国打的几场战争,不是 在边境,就是在别人领土上,从来没有让人家深入内地,更没有让人 家把首都都端了。

家园 “配给制”只是六分之一的人配给

占总数六分之五的农民有配给吗?

家园 leemz2002是谁?

从他的

清末的人口是4.5亿到5.2亿之间。其中4.5亿是满清的户籍 人口,实际的人口数字肯定比这个数字高。而1954年人口普查发 现1949年的人口是5.4亿。也就是说民国那38年满打满算也 只增加了9千万人。换算成人口增长率只有0.48%而已。在没有 普及避孕手段的年代,自然出生率在3.7%到4.5%之间。也就 是说这38年的平均死亡率至少超过3%,比1949年后死亡率最高的 1960年(2.543%)还高。

来看,

他应该是不了解中国人口统计的基本情况,数据是他臆造的。

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