主题：美国WASP统治的衰落？ -- 晨枫
家园 也对也不对 加拿大经济和美国连在一起，美国衰落不可避免地把加拿大拖下水，这个没有什么疑问，也不因为此，加拿大人看不见美国的衰落，因为这不是expectation而是prediction。至于魁北克人，他们比Engligh Canadian更加亲美。
美国、加拿大走向孤立主义，这是衰落过程中必然的事。但孤立主义能维持美国的繁荣吗？不要忘了，美国的繁荣开始于走出孤立主义，欧洲的衰落也开始与孤立主义/保护主义。
- 复 也对也不对
家园 hehe, 魁北克人，他们比Engligh Canadi 魁北克人，他们比Engligh Canadian更加亲美
--I am a bit surprised by this comment. I recently live in Quebec for a long period and interact with them (from Liberal party leaders to low-level working class people) day by day. You will be shocked to hear what they say about America.
I fully understand that Albertans do not like Quebecois due to their overreliance on the federal fiscal support, and I do not have nice comments regarding some of the lazy Quebecois, but your comment above is too shocking.
孤立主义能维持美国的繁荣吗？
--in 19th century, it helped America to fend off European industrial products and built up it own manufacturing sector. Canada, under Sir John MacDonald, practised the same close-market policy and achieved the same target.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:smxoW8uGDpAJ:faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/federal/npolicy.htm+john+macdonald+protective+industrial+policy&cd=2&hl=zh-CN&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
Do not listen to the blahblah talk about Free Trade. America-Canada rose to global economic power exactly due to its tariff protection against foreign industrial products at its infancy stage.
美国的繁荣开始于走出孤立主义，
--America's global political dominance started with 开始于走出孤立主义 under FDR.
欧洲的衰落也开始与孤立主义/保护主义。
--hehe. They fell in the trap of the Anglo-Saxon-American nations and fought two costly war on the EuroAsia land. The wars depleted their manufacturing, financial, human resources and resulted in the collapse of their colonial control. Post-war US research labs were filled with talents from Europe: you see Jews finally lived in peace with German scientists...
保护主义 is a common practice used by France, Germany and British empire until 1950s. Each of them had their own sphere of influence and controlled market and each of them did most of import-export business with their colonial nations.
Today's Global Free Trade order was established by America by forcing France/Britain to dismantle all their spheres of influence. And China is still benefiting from this america-created order called WTO-GATT.
家园 嘿嘿，这么说吧 魁北克人夏天度假去哪里？不是安大略，不是maritimes，更加不是落基山，他们去佛罗里达。魁北克独立的经济依据是什么？“我们和美国的联系比和English Canada更多，美国人对我们也更好”。
美国的繁荣和孤立主义的时间关系，要看繁荣是怎么定义的了。如果说是起飞时间，那还是在孤立主义时代；如果说全盛时代，那是二战之后，绝对已经脱离孤立主义了。
加拿大的孤立主义或许对欧洲大陆国家还有过那么回事，但从来没有对英美孤立主义过。作为前世界第一强国和现世界第一强国，大门对别的国家是不是打开，有什么关系呢？今天加拿大还是孤立主义吗？今天非对美贸易在加拿大经济中占多少地位呢？
- 复 嘿嘿，这么说吧
家园 misperception of Quebecois First, I know Albertans have much anger against Quebec.And Quebecois are laughing stock there, so some comments quoted by you have to be viewed with doubt. BTW, I do not like the French ways of doing things, though I can understand their mentality, history and mentality well. Therefore, I am neutral in my statements.
魁北克人夏天度假去哪里？不是安大略，不是maritimes，更加不是落基山，他们去佛罗里达。
--you mean "winter" right? Quebecois are well-known snow birds for Floridians, just like maritime Altantic English Canadians. BTW, Florida is very hot and humid during summer time, it is not an ideal vacation choice for Quebecois (actually Caribeans ones are more popular among my french friends for cost and language reasons). Even many Floridians often do not stay in FL for the humid summer.
Another two popular destinations for French-Canadians DURING SUMMER: France and Lebannon. I ask several friends for reason: language/cultural similarity are singled out as the most important one.
One friend told me: it took him 35 years to realize that Vermont is actually closer to Quebec than to Toronto. What implies is that due to the bad memory dating back to 1950s/1960s, Quebecois still believe that it is better to go west than to go south.
魁北克独立的经济依据是什么？“我们和美国的联系比和 English Canada更多，美国人对我们也更好”。
--that's bluffing. Do not believe it. The Trudeau airport has busy terminals for domestic flights to other Canadian cities, but the new US-destinated terminals always have few people waiting in line. I noticed that when I flew back and forth between Canada and States.
Economic data do not support quoted statement. In addition, Americans, esp., New Englanders are not fond of "communist" Quebecois: WASPs have long memory about the French-Indian war, they are not stupid. Last time, when I had vacation at my friend's lake-side house in New Hamsphire, Quebecois were cited as his laughing stock several times.
Long time ago, Rene Levesque, the first-generation sovereignist, went to America to seek media support for an independent Quebec, away from the Canadian conferation. He had a fanciful imagination that the home country of Thomas Jefferson would support the great cause of Quebec. To his great disillusion, he got cold shoulders from WASPs and the media.
- 复 你说的也有道理
家园 美国犹太人内部对以色列的态度在最近几年里也出现了分歧 传统的犹太人组织如AIPAC对以色列政府无论什么政策都是大力支持。但是最近十几年里以色列的政治走势越来越向右转。一方面巴勒斯坦方面不停地对以色列攻击，导致以色列人对和平失去希望。另一方面，大量前苏联犹太人移民的涌入，导致以色列宗教右翼的势力得到大大的加强。以色列面临的难题在于其立国的两个支柱：犹太人国家和民主制度将不可能共存。由于阿拉伯人的生育率大大高于犹太人，如果以色列并入加沙和约旦河西岸的领土，在不远的将来，阿拉伯人将多于犹太人，以色列将不再成为犹太人国家。以前左派的主张是放弃这些领土，以土地换和平，这样以色列还能成为犹太人民主国家。而现在以色列的右翼主张兼并这些领土，为解决人口问题，他们提出剥夺阿拉伯人的选举权，现在的以色列外长甚至主张将所有的阿拉伯人驱逐出以色列。这种极端主张在以色列得到越来越多的支持。但是美国犹太人的自由派对以色列内的这种言论极其uncomfortable。这种言论其实同当年纳粹政策区别已经不大了。而且美国年轻的犹太人并没有象老一代那样对反犹主义有着刻骨铭心的记忆，除了在传统犹太教家庭教育出来的少数以外，对以色列并没有特别的感情。他们属于美国人第一，犹太人第二。他们更容易接受美国应该以美国利益为重，不应该无条件地支持以色列。我记得前几年美国犹太人的自由派成立了他们自己的组织（名字我记不起来了）同AIPAC抗衡。但是现在他们的力量还大大弱于AIPAC。
关于茶叶党，类似的populism的运动在美国历史上出现过好几次。最重要的是19世纪末20世纪初的人民党（People's Party)，主张支持农业，反对大企业、银行、铁路，反对东海岸的精英。人民党同今天的茶叶党有近似的地方。茶叶党的支持者几乎都是白人，应该同美国第一个黑人总统当选是有一定关系的。种族主义在美国是根深蒂固，还没有完全被清除。过去三十年里美国的贫富差距越来越大，在现在经济危机的情况下，许多低收入白人的不满情绪就爆发出来了。不过白人的精英，尤其在华尔街的那些人过去三十年的日子是越过越好。就如同十九世纪末，二十世纪初那些Robber Baron聚集起巨额的财富，导致人民党运动一样。就此判断WASP就此衰落，以及美国就此衰落稍微早一点了。
家园 我很奇怪，WASP们都干什么去了？ 美国白人人口，还是WASP居多吧，怎么在顶层政治当中，WASP成了珍稀动物了？这让我看不懂的说。一部分顶层政治人物不是WASP可以算民族大熔炉的成果，可是这么偏离人口分布，是不是有什么问题啊？这不跟天朝9常委都是满族一样怪异么？
家园 歪楼，请教晨大几个英语军事术语的翻译 蓄意歪楼，还请晨大莫怪，下面是两份个人简历里出现的军事术语，请晨大帮忙看看
先看一个韩国老头的
Commanding general of (South Korean) 9th Infantry Division;
Commanding general of 6th Corps;
这两个“Commanding general”怎么翻？是“司令官”吗？
Director of Operations in Joint Chiefs of Staff;
这里“Director of Operations”什么意思？“参谋长联席会议作战部长”？
Deputy Commander in Chief of the ROK-US Combined Forces Command.
这是个什么大官儿？“美韩联合司令部韩方司令”？
下面是个美国老头的
Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Army
“美国陆军副参谋长”？
Commanding General, United States Army Forces Command
“美国陆军总司令”？
Commander in Chief, United Nations Command/Commander in Chief, ROK/U.S. Combined Forces Command/Commander
“美韩联合司令部司令”？
谢谢！
家园 韩国的也许是‘师长’‘军长’ Commanding general of (South Korean) 9th Infantry Division
第九步兵师师长
Commanding general of 6th Corps;
第六集团军军长
家园 大多正确 commanding general就是司令官或者指挥官的意思，如果不是将军，就用commanding officer，简称CO。
Director of Operations只能对应于作战部长，但中国人的作战部长总管一个作战部，美军不一定有这样一个建制，这个director有一个staff，但不一定有正式名称。
Deputy Commander in Chief of the ROK-US Combined Forces Command：韩美联合司令部副司令
Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Army
“美国陆军副参谋长”？-- 正确
Commanding General, United States Army Forces Command
“美国陆军总司令”？ -- 不是，Force Command是美军的本土司令部，所有在美国大陆的美国陆军都归他管，只要是兵站、训练、征兵，没有多少作战智能。原来没有管本土作战的司令部，911之后多了一个北方司令部，管美国和加拿大的作战。
Commander in Chief, United Nations Command/Commander in Chief, ROK/U.S. Combined Forces Command/Commander
“美韩联合司令部司令”？联合国军司令部司令/美韩联合司令部司令
家园 hehe, a few comments and 3E 1、最高法院法官第一次全部是非WASP，九名大法官中，六位是天主教徒，三名是犹太人（包括新人卡根）。
-- Jews are integrated into WASPs. The top crust of Jewish community is well-accepted now. I saw many cases of inter-marriage (WASP+Jew) around me. All are from decent families.
-- 6 do not have WASP faces, but the Supreme Court has deeply the WASP culture there. "Rule of law" (everyone must bow before the law) and "due procedure" are two typical Anglo concepts. They are totally different from their corrupted Irish cousins back in Ireland.
2. 最高法院中居然没有白种盎格鲁·萨克逊新教徒（White Anglo-Saxon Protestant，简称WASP）的任何代表：九名大法官中，六位是天主教徒，三名是犹太人（包括新人卡根）。
--I am curious: who are the CIA or intelligence community Godfathers? Does American president really have all the power?
--Is there any coverage on CFR? People always joke that CFR is the true Department of State...
4、《华尔街日报》月前引用调查，囊括WASP的美国基督教新教徒人口中，只有21%家庭年收入超过10万美元，同一比例在犹太族群中是46%，在代表性的亚裔中也超过了40%。在金权主义的美利坚，这一经济现实的含义不言而喻。
--WASP old families have hidden their WEALTH through foundations or trusts. Many of my students grow up with all expenses paid through "trusts". If you only look at the ANNUAL LABOR INCOME(or earned income) flow of their parents, then you will reach the conclusion above in Chinese, which is a bit misleading.
My question: have we counted the INVESTMENT INCOME(passive income) reported NOT under the individual account, but under various "trusts"/family foundations??
hehe. Devils are there. Poor Chinese just started to get exposure to those games...
BTW, annual income does NOT equal WEALTH. The former is a flow variable and the latter is a stock variable. High annual labor income makes you more vulnerable to Uncle Sam's tax axe (at least 35% or even higher).
Final comment: Li Han Qiu has seris of articles comparing Anglos and Frenchmen. Englishmen are good at empire building because they are inclusive and expansive in their public administration: they offer career opportunity to non-English, shape them in their own culture and beliefs and gradually include them into their ruling clubs.
First example is the Scotsmen. Englishmen absorbed Scotland and shared imperial power with Scots. Scots worked hard to invade foreign lands to fight for the British global order: Canada is a perfect example. Most British soldiers that fought in Canada are Scots--just check Nova Scotia/Halifax.
Second example is the Indians--I mean real Indians back in India. The Indian elites are die-hard loyalists to the British empire--with their excellent british english and English education.
Third example is the American Italians, American Germans, American Irishmen. Historically, there were discrimination against all of them, with Italians and Irishmen suffering most in 19th century and early 20th century.
But look at the WWII American top commanders in 1920s:
Eisenhower/Ike: Supreme Commander of the Allied force, a German American from Texas.
Nimitz: Admiral and chief commander of the Pacific fleet, a German American. The guy who plotted the Midway success.
In the Bush Jr. administration, several key positions are controlled by Jewish elites and German Americans.
As to Italian Americans, there are many many examples... Irish Americans: check today's American generals.
Remember what I said: an expansive and integrative order of empire with certain meritcracy (never 100%).
Those German/Dutch/Irish/Italian Americans are very very different from their European cousins: they are WASPized culturally and ideologically. They are physicall non-Anglo, but culturally Angloized.
In sum, WASP has one top administration skill in their hand: they are good at building empires that are 3E: enticing, embracing and expansive.
Enticing: they use "better life"/"more freedom" to entice you to join. Unlike Frenchmen, who always pick on your poor French accent and treated you like underdogs, Englishmen create the mirage that if you work hard and do things in their ways, you can join them and "be like them with better life" (not always true).
Embracing: they embrace you through the market competition or open market. They embrace you by giving you "fair shot", you embrace their WASP global order by joining their game and playing by their rules.
Expansive: the Anglo global empire expanded globally which allows every passenger on the boat to share the prosperity. In the end, an Asian/European grew culturally into the WASP mode (think/behave/talk) and in the process expanded the WASP Anglo global order (economic/political/educational...) further on a global scale. Look at those expatriate managers of US multinationals in Asia and Europe....
Look at those proud Americans on July 4, then you fully understand my term 3E...
WASPs can shrink in head count, but their cultural grasp of American mainstream never fade away. They revived themselves by adding and marrying Jewish financial elites, Irish political elites and German industrial elites.
When Chinese are rich and powerful enough, both in States and in Asia, you might one day see some Asian faces in CFR/Country Club dinners. But those are, for sure, America-educated Ivy graduates "bananas".
WASPs are exclusive, but they are equally realistic and respecting wealth and power.
通宝推：心文连博,星河,本嘉明,老马丁,