主题：【原创】航空史上十大名机 -- 晨枫
家园 说到mig25雷达杀兔子的事 好象国内有人写文说这个根本是不可能的？
有没有兄弟了解的哈，给俺解释解释
家园 500千瓦的功率，应该行，跟微波炉比比就知道了
家园 说到F-104的高失事率 F-104号称寡妇制造者，其实也不全是飞机的过错。西德拿到F-104G以后把它当作对地攻击机用，其实F-104是作为高速截击机设计的，当攻击机用完全是入错了行。想象一下开着小跑车去超载拉货那是啥感觉？作为攻击机的F-104为了躲避雷达的探测，经常是带着沉重的弹药做低空、超低空飞行。F-104翼载又高，对气流非常敏感。天气一不好，飞行员要控制住飞机可不容易。所有这些因素加起来，飞行员飞着F-104要注意外面的地形，要注意控制好飞机，还要导航、通信，最后还要瞄准、轰炸。万一有个闪失，飞机不摔也难。更糟糕的是，F-104服役早期的维护人员素质非常差（好像是包给民间公司了），更是雪上加霜。
家园 说到F-104 在航展看到过一次F-104飞行，速度很快，但机动性相当差，航展目力所及范围内，都拉不全一个水平盘旋，所以总是横过来，竖过去，懒洋洋地滚几个横滚。起飞、着陆速度很高，滑跑距离巨长，看着比F-16长一倍都不止，还是放了减速伞呢。发动机声音尖利，一听就知道是靠烧油烧出来的高速低流量的喷气推力。F-15、F-16的发动机是沉雷似的，听着就有劲。
西德的F-104和“美国因素”大有关系。当时竟标的有四架飞机：F-104，幻影-3，瑞典的萨伯-35龙式，还有一个好像是英国的闪电式，记不清了。西德军方对幻影-3最中意，当时的法德特殊关系（戴高乐和阿登纳在战后创建，是后来的欧洲煤钢联盟、欧洲共同市场乃至今天欧盟的政治基础）也在政治上促使西德往幻影-3方向移动，但美国插了一腿，施压使西德选用F-104，既有商业和军事上的原因，也有政治控制和离间法德的原因。
最后的F-104是从意大利空军退役的，才不久，好像是去年。意大利空军对Eurofighter Typhoon最急切，因为这些F-104实在等不及了。最后还是没接上茬，买了一批美国退役封存的F-16A/B先用着。这G7成员当的。
- 复 说到F-104
家园 F-104也没有那么可怕吧 90年代初有一期航空知识上登了一个台湾老飞行员的文章，他说F-104是很好的飞机，只要运用得法，那种飞行的震撼效果是别的飞机难以比拟的。其实后期F-104的事故率并不太高，主要是初期在美国和德国搞得名声太坏。
当时西德空军选型时好像比较看好英国的闪电，但是当时英国的工党政府鬼迷心窍地觉得所有载人飞机都是无用的废物，生怕德国人把闪电买了去让国内的航空企业扬眉吐气不服政府的督导，不肯向导弹化过渡。所以从中百般作梗，这种不屈不挠的要废掉自己航空工业根基的做法也是世上少见。
意大利人玩F-104好像还挺带劲，当时国内引进过一部意大利电视剧《飞行员与模特》，里面F-104和旋风式同台竞技，意大利好像一点也不得两者差着辈分呢。
- 复 说到F-104
家园 老美开玩笑说F-104其实就是个载人火箭 manned rocket -- 又细又长的机身，又窄又短的翅膀，一直怀疑国产“红鸟”巡航导弹是否就是照F-104按比例缩小的...
家园 这话非常正确 因为F-104的翼型选择十分独特，是用几百发火箭弹装上不同翅膀大出去，来判断哪种最好而选定的。
F-104被称为飞行棺材的另一个大毛病还是设计上的，它的主操作系统和应急操作系统是并在一起的，因此一旦一个出问题，比如中弹损毁，多半另一个同时也会完蛋。。。
家园 我觉得波音747应该上榜。近四十年来，航运老大的位置没人敢碰。 直到前两天的空中客车A380问世，这一纪录才被打破。
外链图片需谨慎，可能会被源头改记得这个经典镜头吗？波音747身上背一个航天飞机，当时我看到这则新闻的时候，觉得真是酷毙了,牛！
[SIZE=3]Historical background[/SIZE]
The 747 was born out of the explosion of air travel in the 1960s. The era of commercial jet transportation led by the enormous popularity of the Boeing 707 had revolutionised long distance travel and made possible the concept of the "global village." Boeing had already developed a study for a very large airplane while bidding on a US military contract for a huge airlifter. Boeing lost the contract to Lockheeds C-5A Galaxy but came under pressure from its most loyal airline customer Pan Am to develop a giant passenger plane which would be over twice the size of the 707. In 1966 Boeing proposed a preliminary configuration for the airliner, which was to be called the 747, and Pan Am ordered 25 of the initial -100 series. The design was a full length double decker, but due to issues with evacuation routes this idea was scrapped in favor of a wide-body design.
At the time, it was widely thought that the 747 would be replaced in the future with an SST (SuperSonic Transport) design. Boeing took the shrewd move and designed the 747 so that it could easily be adapted to carry freight, knowing that when sales of the passenger version dried up, it could remain in production as a cargo aircraft. The cockpit was moved to a shortened upper deck so that a nose cone loading door could be included, creating the 747's distinctive "bulge." However, the supersonic transports such as Boeing's still-born SST and the Concorde never lived up to their promise, being too expensive to operate profitably at a time when fuel prices were soaring. The upper deck was initially used as a luxurious first-class lounge/bar area, but is now most often used for extra seating capacity. After being expected to wither on the vine with only 400 sales, the 747 outlived many of its critics and production passed the 1,000 mark in 1993. The expected slow-down in sales of the passenger version in favor of the cargo derivative has only happened in the early 2000s.
The development of the 747 was a huge undertaking. Boeing did not have a factory big enough to assemble the giant aircraft, so the company had to build an all-new assembly building near Everett, Washington. This factory is the largest building ever built. Pratt and Whitney developed a massive high-bypass turbofan engine, the JT9D, that was, in the beginning, exclusively for the 747. To appease concerns about the safety and flyability of such a massive aircraft, the 747 was designed with four backup hydraulic systems, split control surfaces, multiple structural redundancy, and sophisticated flaps which allow it to use standard-length runways.
Initially, Boeing found that the 747 was being treated with skepticism by many airlines. At the time, Boeing's rivals, McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed, were working on wide-body three-engine "tri-jets", which were significantly smaller than the proposed 747. Many airlines wondered if the 747 would prove too large for an average long distance flight and instead invested in tri-jets. Furthermore, there was worry about whether the 747 would be compatible with existing airport infrastructure.
Another issue raised by the airlines was fuel efficiency. A three-engine airliner burns significantly less fuel per flight than a four-engine, and with airlines trying to lower costs, fuel efficiency was a large issue (this issue would return to haunt Boeing during the 1970s).
Boeing had promised the 747 to Pan Am by 1970, so it had less than four years to develop, build and test the 747. Work progressed at such a breakneck pace that all those who worked on the development of the 747 were given the nickname "The Incredibles". The massive cost of developing the 747 and building the Everett factory meant that Boeing had gambled its very existence on the 747's success, and the company was nearly bankrupted in the early 1970s. The gamble paid off however, and Boeing enjoyed a monopoly on very large passenger transports that has only been broken 35 years later with the advent of the Airbus A380.
家园 747在榜上啊，荣誉提名榜，见下 http://www.cchere.com/article/316520
747是一架划时代的飞机，但707是开创一个纪元的飞机。同时，对波音来说，707还比三大战役，747好比渡江战役，都重要，但意义不一样。
家园 应该有米格21吧 说F111影响了一代战斗机的设计有点夸张.变后掠翼的出现是飞机设计发展到一定阶段的产物,它的出现和消失无非都是"否定之否定"规律在飞机工业中的体现.
至于二战时期的战斗机,我还是认为BF109比较适合进入名机行列.作为三十年代的设计,它应该是当时飞机设计的最高水平.
家园 兄弟正在写“出师未捷身先亡的十大名机” 专门聊聊本来可以成功、但由于种种原因夭折的名机。名单已经列好。各位要是有兴趣，可以自拟一份名单，到时候我们比较比较，应该会很好玩的。