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主题:中国GDP总额超过日本的意义 -- 陈经

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家园 写的不错

顶一个

家园 说说我的理解

先给出定义:GDP是既定地域(一国/地区)在既定时间内(一年)生产的所有最终物品和劳务的市场价值总和.

在急转弯中,假定妈妈和两个儿子是一个国家/地区的全部人口.既定时间为一天(虽然太短了点).生产的最终物品是20张大饼,其市场价值为20块.大饼是谁创造的?妈妈.两个儿子没有创造GDP,因为他们没有生产出最终产品.那他们之间的购买行为算什么?答案是消费.

家园 意义就是我们的人均GDP终于达到日本的1/10了
家园 同样的行为 在中国是这样的

心理咨询师的亲戚是个律师, 心理咨询师找亲戚咨询了法律问题 没花钱

律师找做心理咨询师的亲戚咨询心理问题, 没花钱

于是GDP比美国就差了一截了.....

家园 俺犯错误了。

  俺曾经带一位远房亲戚找律师朋友咨过询,还给写了份法律文书,都没花钱。俺这行为影响了中国的GDP,俺检讨。

家园 脑筋急转弯:GDP的算法(3)

这个故事还可以作一些变化。妈妈把二十张饼一块钱卖给了两儿子,又把这一块钱借给了他们。两儿子拿着这一块钱,二十张饼,一天卖光,买光,吃光。于是妈妈这一天创造了一元的GDP,两儿子创造了十九元(20-1)的GDP。而且这种GDP创造模式还可以日复一日,年复一年的持续下去。

如果把这个故事中的“妈妈”置换为“中国”,“儿子”置换为“美国”,大家再看看是不是很有意思。

关键词(Tags): #GDP
家园 中国的赡养老人、照顾小孩都没有进GDP

美国这个方面也是很大一块,小孩没有爷爷奶奶照顾,需要进Daycare,很贵的,一个月至少1000美元。

家园 一点思考:GDP的算法

在这个故事里,二十张大饼作为商品被消费或“消化”掉,那么按照GDP的expenditure算法,就会贡献二十元的GDP。有趣的是,如果妈妈只是做了二十张大饼让儿子吃掉,这种非市场交易则对GDP没有贡献。养儿养老在美国是高度市场化的,对GDP有很大贡献,而在中国还主要是家庭责任,不算GDP,是GDP“同工不同酬”的一个实例。

这里最关键的一个问题是:这二十元的GDP是谁创造出来的?答案是两个儿子,当饼是由妈妈无偿提供时。这似乎很荒唐,实际上,儿子这里卖的不是饼,而是“卖饼”的服务。

家园 某些人不懂难得不知道去百度吗?

国内生产总值共有四个不同的组成部分,其中包括消费、私人投资、政府支出和净出口额。用公式表示为:GDP = CA + I + CB + X 式中:CA为消费、I为私人投资、 CB为政府支出、X为净出口额。

冷嘲热讽算什么本事?自家没房子只会唧唧歪歪.你就租一辈子吧

家园 这只是极端假设出来的情况

现实生活中不太可能出现,即使有,也微乎其微,在整体社会统计中可以忽略不计了。经济学的基础就是假设每个参与社会经济运作的人都是“理性人”,会自然选择自己利益最大化的选项的。弟兄俩互相买饼吃掉好像不是很理性啊

家园 律师与心理学家互相付服务费。这相当于GDP吹泡泡

举个不雅的例子:

二对新人要结婚,突然想到何不多创造GDP?

于是双方名义上和不是自己的爱人结婚,实际和自己的爱人同居,当然每天都互相付服务费。

于是GDP的吹泡泡越来越大。

家园 日本GDP中虚的比例比美国要少了,如果分析一下美国,

其GDP更是花架子。如果考虑到RMB汇率被人为低估的情况,中国实际GDP应该很快就要超美国了。

这当然是件好事儿,不过人民更关心自己的福祉。下面应该在改善民生、提高国民收入上做文章才行,否则有再多的钢筋水泥也没有用。

家园 实际上对于这类问题,老广介绍的很透彻了

对于GDP统计的方式、包含的内容、对评估经济的作用等等,如果对于GDP确有兴趣,读完这个帖子会很有收获

老广:闲谈gdp

http://www.talkcc.com/article/898543

关于那个经典笑话的评论,也适用于你的急转弯所产生的陷阱:

四月一日:从吃狗屎看GDP

http://www.ccthere.com/article/625101

家园 西西河的水就是深啊,这些老贴真是好贴。

特别是老广的系列紧扣中国国情,深入浅出,实在应该顶上来让大家多看看。

家园 不一样的GDP

在网上看到这么一段精彩描述。

There are three ways to calculate GDP, Expenditure approach, Income Approach and production approach. China uses the production approach to calculate, while West uses Expenditure approach to calculate. And in Expenditure approach, you get Consumption, Investment and Trade Surplus and add them together, you get GDP. Chinese way is different, we use different sector production added value and added them together. Since China has an old Soviet style statistical system, the people and infrastructure already there. So they use that resource to collect the data. It is convenient for them. For example, for industry, they only collect data from enterprise with over 500 employees. For those below 500 employees, they use the latest census proportion data. The census happened in every decade.

In this way, there is no way to get Consumption, Investment data in West national accounts concept. But they have some other data that has been collected since 50s. So they use that as a substitute. So for Consumption, we got Total retail sales of social commodities, Chinese is called 社会消费品零售总额. The year 2009 number for it is 12.5 trillion, while the total GDP is 34 Trillion RMB. That is why the 36% consumption data come from. This consumption does not include any service consumption except hospitality industry. It does not include education, health care, housing, entertainment, financial, law service etc which all included in the West consumption concept. Chinese do not think education, health care, housing those kind of thing as consumption. Chinese regard those as cost/expense that reduce the ability to consume. If you know chinese and go to Chinese forum, you can find thousands of posts complain the high education/health care/housing cost prevent them to consume. In China, consume means buy real stuff. Apparently, they did not take economy 101.

So use this number as consumption is way underestimated the consumption role in China economy. That is why with almost every consume products, China market size ranks world top2 and people still say we not consume at all. If you compare the US retail number’s percentage in their GDP, it will be very similar to China percentage. There rent is 10% GDP, health care 14% or 18% GDP and they have so many lawyers and a big fat Wall Street there. They are all classified as consumptions. American people must be very satisfied with their top-tier financial service consumption. :lol:

Then let’s talk about investment. There is no investment data in West national account concept collected. Instead, they collect Fixed Asset Investment, Chinese term固定资产投资. This number has been collected for more than half century. The 2009 number is 22 trillion. People use this number as investment because it well collected and this number confused people. This number includes land purchase expenditure which exclude in West national accounts concept investment figure because they do not think it added any value to the economic activity. But in Chinese eyes, if you invest in a factory or building, you need buy the land and that is from their pocket, then of course it belongs to investment. Considered the high land price today in China, a big chunk of fixed asset investment is on land purchase.

Another one is old land/building/equipment purchase,for example, you want to enter one certain industry, you either buy new land and build your facility and install new machinery or you can buy one old factory and kicked in right away. Chinese number included this old land/building/equipment purchase and West investment does not included. For Chinese, no matter old or new, your money spend on investment, of course it can be called investment. For West concept, it is just change hand without no new value added, so not included in their investment figure.

One more part, is the Chinese fix asset investment figure does not included stock change, while the West concept do. We regard this as investment on fixed asset. So what hell is stock about. All these three things combine, you got a overestimated investment.

For trade surplus, we do not include service trade surplus. China got a 30 billion deficit on a 280 billion service trade last year. Anyway it is not that big.

BTW: China authority never claimed the社会消费品零售总额 is the corresponding part of West Consumption and 固定资产投资, the corresponding part of West Investment. The economics geniuses interpreter that way.

所谓消费只占中国GDP的1/3原来不包括一大部分服务行业,而西方把这些都算进去了,并且是他们消费的大头。

如果这是真的,那么长久以来的一个想法就是对的了:经济学家根本不懂自己说的数据从何而来,他们自己把自己绕糊涂了。

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