主题:[请教]老电影<<闻香识女人>>中的三观 -- AleaJactaEst
虽你讲的道理我很赞同,但因你的例子举得不好。
规则还会变。
以生殖器贴来说,从本人对河规则的理解,你对的,但肯定也有人认为生殖器没错。
规则是遵守者的规则,它本身就是主观意识的产物。
所以生殖器则对错涉及两个层面:是否认可规则,如何理解规则。
所以铁手一直在改,一直不能满意。根本原因,就是铁手对于“专政”这个问题没理顺。他怎么可能让所有河都觉得公平公正,都觉得满意,有人不满意,他自己也就不满意,也就一直在改。
主角和犯事人只是面面之交,但也绝不能干出出卖同学的勾当。校长给的那点推荐,怎么能抵得过破坏江湖义气的大罪。
就表示已经放弃修5所保证的权力,之后不得选择性地回答问题(每题都是必答题)。
唐僧睡了一个女妖精,十世修行就玩了。
这个时候再拒绝回答,就要坐牢了。
电影的语速很快,你可能没注意到一开始律师对女主角说的话
behind bars. You make one statement,
correct one nefarious allegation,
that’s it. You waive your right to
the Fifth and you’re compelled to
answer everything. You’re being taken
to the woodshed in front of the
national press, they’re gonna rile
you so bad they’d make Gandhi wanna
cut their tongues out.
在法庭上,证人和被告不一样,可以选择性回答。可以在回答上周二在哪里之后,拒绝回答周三在哪里(依然受修5保护)。
但是,法庭可以强制传讯证人出庭,不说也得说。但是法庭不得强行传讯被告。
闻香识女人不是正式开庭,但是也讲这个原则的。校长一直在逼问富二代和穷帅哥。在富二代提供破案线索后,校长并没有传唤那三人来逼问,因为那三位可以守口如瓶。
在现实生活中,破罪案真遇到类似情况,往往是提供减刑给三人当中某一位,让他作为污点证人咬死其他两个。
好莱坞的律政片,还有一个永恒主题是鼓励主动作证的公民意识。
大概同时期有一部电影,女主角是后来奥斯卡影后朱迪·福斯特,在酒吧被轮奸。给她打官司的美女律师是Top Gun里面和汤姆克鲁斯男才女貌的那位。电影里面的帅哥就是看见作案后,先匿名报警,然后指证自己的亲戚朋友。
闻香识女人这个案子却是个灰色地带。
校长只是不学无术,爱拍马屁而已,并没有犯下性侵学生之类的滔天罪行,所以不是敌我矛盾。
另外一方面,这件事又闹大了,富一代已经摆不平了。如果是富二代在校园里吸毒被抓,可能富一代会请校长高抬贵手,同时保证明年让校长评上州劳动模范。校方和富一代也都认可校长要追究到底,这是个维持学校秩序的问题。
因此,帅哥说还是不说,Al Pacino并不知道对还是不对。
而最后富一代到场,我理解是让富二代有个台阶下---我本来是一个字都不会说的,但是老爸逼我说
校长代表体制,反体制天然正确。
学生代表的被统治者面对体制天然弱势、无力正面斗争,只能背后下绊子。因此背后下绊子有理。既然背后下绊子有理,那么告密者自然应该被鄙视、坚守秘密者才是英雄。
我举了另一个例子律政俏佳人2。
参议员的黑人女助理为了帮助女主实现正义,采取black mail(勒索)的手段逼参议员就范,这就是犯罪了----这就是宣扬革命无罪了。
这两个电影都有点宣扬和强权做斗争可以不择手段。
我觉得是文革思想的初级阶段。
你同学旷课,伤害的是自己。
而情节里,受害者是校长。
更类似的应该是我小学的一个经历,有调皮同学把蛤蟆放到女老师的包里,吓得她花容失色。时间太久了,记不清结局了---好像是一直没人招供揭发,老师就不让放学,把大家扣到吃晚饭的时候,然后家长纷纷来领人
首先,校长惹人讨厌,被下了套。搞恶作剧的学生当然也不对。但是校长进一步的行动是威胁无辜的查理举报这些学生。如果查理不举报就要被开除。查理和这些学生讲哥们义气,不愿意举报。
这里的重点是学生是否应当在自己的前途受到威胁的情况下出卖朋友。很显然,校长用查理的前途作威胁是过分的。深想一步,如果查理这次因为校长的威胁而作证,那么下次会不会因为受到威胁而做伪证呢?或者为了某些利益而出卖大家呢?作证要出于正义,要出于自愿。被胁迫作证,无论是不是伪证,都是不可取的。这里就是美国主流价值观一贯鼓吹的程序正义。
佛兰克中校从这点出发,认为学校不应该教育孩子出卖朋友,尤其不应该把孩子教育成“告密者”(snitch)。如果这么干了,表面上看是培养孩子“领导能力”,实际上是鼓励孩子们从小为了利益出卖朋友。这和学校标榜精神背道而驰。
下面是弗兰克中校的辩护词脚本,可以很清楚的看出这个脉络。
Headmaster Trask: Mr. Simms, you are a cover-up artist and you are a liar.
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: But not a snitch.
Headmaster Trask: Excuse me?
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: No, I don’t think I will.
Headmaster Trask: Mr. Slade.
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: This is such a crock of shit.
Headmaster Trask: Please watch your language, Mr. Slade. You are in the Baird School not a barracks. Mr. Simms, I will give you one final opportunity to speak up.
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: Mr. Simms doesn’t want it. He doesn’t need to labeled: “Still worthy of being a ‘Baird Man.'” What the hell is that? What is your motto here? “Boys, inform on your classmates, save your hide” — anything short of that we’re gonna burn you at the stake? Well, gentlemen, when the shit hits the fan some guys run and some guys stay. Here’s Charlie facing the fire; and there’s George hidin’ in big Daddy’s pocket. And what are you doin’? You’re gonna reward George and destroy Charlie.
Headmaster Trask: Are you finished, Mr. Slade?
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: No, I’m just gettin’ warmed up. I don’t know who went to this place, William Howard Taft, William Jennings Bryan, William Tell — whoever. Their spirit is dead — if they ever had one — it’s gone. You’re building a rat ship here. A vessel for sea going snitches. And if you think your preparing these minnows for manhood you better think again. Because I say you are killing the very spirit this institution proclaims it instills! What a sham. What kind of a show are you guys puttin’ on here today. I mean, the only class in this act is sittin’ next to me. And I’m here to tell ya this boy’s soul is intact. It’s non-negotiable. You know how I know? Someone here — and I’m not gonna say who — offered to buy it. Only Charlie here wasn’t sellin’.
Headmaster Trask: Sir, you are out of order!
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: Outta order? I’ll show you outta order! You don’t know what outta order is, Mr. Trask! I’d show you but I’m too old; I’m too tired; I’m too fucking blind. If I were the man I was five years ago I’d take a Flame-Thrower to this place! Outta order. Who the hell you think you’re talking to? I’ve been around, you know? There was a time I could see. And I have seen boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there isn’t nothing like the sight of an amputated spirit; there is no prosthetic for that. You think you’re merely sendin’ this splendid foot-soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs, but I say you are executing his Soul!! And why?! Because he’s not a Baird man! Baird men, ya hurt this boy, you’re going to be Baird Bums, the lot of ya. And Harry, Jimmy, Trent, wherever you are out there, Fuck You, too!
Headmaster Trask: Stand down, Mr. Slade!
Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade: I’m not finished! As I came in here, I heard those words, “cradle of leadership.” Well, when the bow breaks, the cradle will fall. And it has fallen here; it has fallen. Makers of men; creators of leaders; be careful what kind of leaders you’re producing here. I don’t know if Charlie’s silence here today is right or wrong.
I’m not a judge or jury. But I can tell you this: he won’t sell anybody out to buy his future!! And that, my friends, is called integrity! That’s called courage! Now that’s the stuff leaders should be made of. Now I have come to the crossroads in my life. I always knew what the right path was. Without exception, I knew. But I never took it. You know why? It was too damn hard. Now here’s Charlie. He’s come to the crossroads. He has chosen a path. It’s the right path. It’s a path made of principle — that leads to character. Let him continue on his journey.
You hold this boy’s future in your hands, committee. It’s a valuable future. Believe me. Don’t destroy it! Protect it. Embrace it. It’s gonna make ya proud one day — I promise you.
这个三观对不对?各人有各人的看法。中国文化中类似查理的表现是《水浒》中的哥们义气。但还是有所不同。这里更加强调的是不因强权而放弃自己的原则,更不因强权而出卖自己的尊严。尤其是当校长小题大作,以强凌弱的时候。
是因为演员,还是剧本,或者说是创作者的价值观?
阿尔.帕契诺 在影片中的表现的确可圈可点。
最佳影片(提名) 马丁·布莱斯特
最佳导演(提名) 马丁·布莱斯特
最佳男主角 阿尔·帕西诺
最佳改编剧本(提名) 博·古德曼
可能还是意识里的某些东西作怪。之前也有网文分析过,在英国人心目中,印度人是奴仆,中国人爱背叛,家养小精灵象征黑奴等等。《哈利波特》的作者罗林女士自诩是个自由主义者,然而作品中却反映出根深蒂固的阶级固化和现实社会原型,怪不得有一个调查说英国的阶级固化比800年前还严重。
公权力一般都是强的,但是公权力在信息获取上又非常的弱。
这就涉及到个人对公共利益的判断的问题了。影片中的行为,因为影片铺垫中丑化了校长,所以,好像那种行为并不损害公共利益。——这个时候告密,并获取个人到哈佛的机会,显然就是不道德的。
电影里面是那个华裔,波特的初恋喝了吐真水,说了实情。
原著里,叛徒是华裔的朋友,一个本来就不情愿加入的小姑娘,不过她也在入会的花名册了签了名,那个花名册被赫敏下了咒。所以小姑娘后来脸上挂花。