五千年(敝帚自珍)

主题:【原创】在医学上什么是证据?送给无知的人们 -- 虽远必诛

共:💬138 🌺155 🌵9
分页树展主题 · 全看首页 上页
/ 10
下页 末页
    • 家园 中药那段

      review author 不能认同原文作者的实验设计,但是review作者也不敢下结论说中药无效(我猜原文作者基本上都是说有效地),因此得出了以上结论。

      虽远大夫英文可能很好,但是因为别人英文不太好就冷嘲热讽(特别还用红字标出来),好像不是做学问的人的风度吧?

    • 家园 看得出来,科学这个金喇叭不是那么好吹的。

      不过大夫你引用的中药治感冒那段,分明是一帮中国人干的嘛!

      你单单把那个结论按你自己的想法翻译了一句,有一点不厚道

      的意思在里面啊。

      Chinese herbal medicines may shorten the symptomatic phase in patients with the common cold.

      这句话你怎么不翻译一下呢?你自己不是宣称中药对普通感冒完全无效的吗?这个和那帮人说的无法确认有效并不等价吧。

      大家都责备为什么中医们不去吹响那个金喇叭,其实,他们根本就置不起金喇叭啊。

      • 家园 先别着急发表结论,现把英语提高了,再说。

        Chinese herbal medicines may shorten the symptomatic phase in patients with the common cold.

        找个英语好,看看是否能得出,cure的结论?

        • 家园 有个小问题问一下,里面的CHINESE HERBS是什么

          中药?总结部分完全没说,你给的那个全文链接又打不开

        • 家园 虽然得不出治愈的结论,但改善症状是可以做出的结论

          而改善症状,是疾病治疗过程中的一个方面。

        • 家园 大夫,你这样就有点不地道啦。

          Cure和完全无效之间还有很多合理的等级。反对“完全无效”就表示确认“CURE”吗?看来你的逻辑比你的英语水平差远了!

          你引用的那个文献没有具体提到他们如何进行的试验,但是我理解他们的困难是无法设置一个合乎科学要求的试验方法。

          the lack of trials of low enough risk of bias, or using a placebo or a drug clearly identified as a control,

          您英语好,何妨把那个摘要全文翻译一下,让大家看看,到底有没有证据表明中药对普通感冒完全无效?当然,其他河友出手我也不反对。我把全文附在后面。

          Abstract

          Background

          Chinese medicinal herbs are frequently used to treat the common cold in China. Until now, their efficacy has not been systematically reviewed.

          Objectives

          To assess the effectiveness and safety of Chinese medicinal herbs for the common cold.

          Search strategy

          We searched the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL) (The Cochrane Library 2008, issue 2), which contains the Cochrane Acute Respiratory Infections Group's Specialised Register; MEDLINE (1966 to May 2008); EMBASE (1980 to May 2008); AMED (1985 to May 2008); the Chinese Biomedical Database (CBMdisc) (1978 to May 2008); and China National Knowledge Infrastructure (CNKI) (1994 to May 2008).

          Selection criteria

          Randomised controlled trials (RCTs) studying the efficacy of Chinese medicinal herb(s) for the treatment of the common cold.

          Data collection and analysis

          Four review authors telephoned the original trial authors of the RCTs identified by our searches to verify the randomisation procedure. Two review authors extracted and analysed data from trials which met the inclusion criteria.

          Main results

          We found17 studies involving 3212 patients. The methods of 15 studies were at high risk of bias. In only two studies was the risk of bias low. Trials used "positive drugs", of which the efficacy was not known, as controls. Different Chinese herbal preparations were tested in nearly all trials. In only one trial was a Chinese herbal preparation tested twice. In seven trials, six herbal preparations were found to be more effective at enhancing recovery than the control preparations. In the other 10 studies, seven herbal preparations were not shown to be significantly different from the control. One study did not describe the difference between the intervention and control groups.

          Authors' conclusions

          Chinese herbal medicines may shorten the symptomatic phase in patients with the common cold. However, the lack of trials of low enough risk of bias, or using a placebo or a drug clearly identified as a control, means that we are uncertain enough to be unable to recommend any kind of Chinese medicinal herbs for the common cold.

          • 家园 看来你不但是英文有问题,逻辑也有问题,看文献,太难为你了

            1,现在Cochrane reviews 的出的结论是没有药物可以治愈感冒。某些药物可以缓解症状。

            你能分清楚治愈cure 和治疗 treat,症状控制,systematic management 之间的区别吗?

            不能!

            看看这里。链接出处

            所以你说治愈同无效之间有很多级别,就是连基本概念都不懂。

            现在在探讨:中药能否治好普通感冒。结论是无法治好。

            2,

            你引用的那个文献没有具体提到他们如何进行的试验,但是我理解他们的困难是无法设置一个合乎科学要求的试验方法。

            你对cochrane reviews 太不熟悉了,不适合于看医学文献。

            这个是review,回顾别人的实验,不是自己做实验。

            the lack of trials of low enough risk of bias, or using a placebo or a drug clearly identified as a control,

            是说目前进入回顾的文章,缺乏偏见控制bias,没有用安慰剂对照,或者没有用其他药物对照。

            比如说简单的给汤药,然后得出正性的结果,当然不令人信服,这个是EBM的关键,要有安慰剂,或者其他药物对比,否则人家说不吃,或者吃其他药物更好,你无法回答。

            这就是目前可以查到的中药治疗感冒的文献的通病。

            这下你明白了吗?

            3,既然细究结论,不如都贴出来,看看全文不是更好

            外链出处

            希望你能看得懂。

            一共116页,有兴趣的可以打印出来。

            这个是关于偏见控制的

            Assessment of risk of bias in included studies

            We assessed the risk of bias of each trial in terms of generation

            of allocation sequence, allocation concealment, blinding, uncompleted

            data and selective reporting; and classified themas ’lowrisk’,

            ’moderate risk’, or ’high risk’ according to the guidelines of the

            Cochrane Handbook for Systematic Reviews of Interventions 5.0.0 (

            Higgins 2008) and as described in Wu 2007a. There was no disagreement

            in this process.

            Sequence generation

            An adequate approach for generating allocation sequence with a

            low risk of selection bias should be by using a random numbers table

            or computer software, or other simple randomisationmethods,

            for example, coin tossing or card shuffling. We considered a trial

            which only mentions ’random’ but does not include a description

            of the approach used as a moderate risk of selection bias.

            讲的很清楚,自己好好看。

            Allocation sequence concealment

            Low risk of selection bias: adequate measures to conceal allocation

            sequence is defined as the person who generates an allocation

            sequence not recruiting the participants, for example, by central

            randomisation. Examples of concealing allocation sequences are

            using sealed opaque envelopes or storing allocation sequences in

            a locked computer.

            Moderate risk of selection bias: where concealment of the allocation

            sequence is mentioned but the approach used is not reported.

            High risk of selection bias: allocation concealment is reported

            inadequately, or is not performed at all.

            关于盲的控制

            Level of blinding

            Masking of both the participants and results assessor was considered

            as a low risk of performance or/and detection bias.

            Single blinding of the results assessor was considered as amoderate

            risk of performance or/and detection bias. If single blinding was

            performed on the participants but not the results assessor, it was

            considered as a high risk of detection bias.

            Non-blinding for detection of outcomes includes quality of life

            (QoL); adverse events were considered as a high risk of detection

            bias. Blinding was not considered necessary for reporting mortality.

            结果的评价

            Measures of treatment effect

            We analysed the data using Review Manager 5 (RevMan 2008).

            We compared outcome measures for binary data using risk ratios.

            For continuous data, we used the mean difference.We conducted

            a pooled analysis for two trials only (Chang 2002; Yu 2005).

            入选实验的介绍

            Included studies

            All 17 included trials used a parallel group design. Four trials (

            Chang 2007; Li 1999a; Wang 2008a; Zhang 2008) were multicentre

            trials.

            A total of 3212 participants were included in the 17 trials, with

            numbers of participants in each trial varying from58 to 463. Only

            three trials (Chang 2005; Chang 2007; Wang 2008a) mentioned

            that the sample size was calculated according to the SFDA’s regulation

            about sample size of non-inferiority test studies (that a total

            number of 200 participants be included); extra participants were

            also included in these trials to avoid possible attrition bias.

            Nine trials included children aged from six months to 14 years (

            Chen 2004; Li 1998; Liu 2002;Ma 2000; Pan 2000; Song 2004a;

            Wang 1998; Yang 2000; Yu 1997). Eight trials included adultsaged from 18 to 65 or 72 years old (Chang 2002; Chang 2005;

            Chang 2007; Li 1999a;Wang 2004;Wang 2008a; Yu 2005;Zhang

            2008).

            Eleven trials included participants according to TCM signs. Nine

            trials (Chang 2005; Chang 2007; Chen 2004; Li 1998; Li 1999a;

            Ma 2000; Wang 2008a; Yang 2000; Zhang 2008) included patients

            with “fever cold”. One trial (Yu 1997) included both “fever

            cold” and “chills cold” patients. Three trials (Chang 2002; Wang

            2004; Yu 2005) included “chills cold”.Two trials (Pan 2000;Wang

            1998) did not sort the patients by TCM signs.

            Two trials (Chang 2002; Yu 2005) compared the Chinese herbs

            Sanhan Jiere Koufuye and (Fenghan) Biaoshi Ganmao Chongji.

            Other trials used different interventions and comparators. These

            are listed below:

            Yu 1997 comparedCaichenQinreWeixinGuanchangji

            with virazole and acetaminophen.

            Li 1998 compared Qinwen Keli granule with Kangbingdu

            Koufuye.

            Wang 1998 compared JianerQinjie YewithQinre Jiedu

            Koufuye.

            Li 1999a compared Qinkailing injection with Lincomycine.

            Ma 2000 compared Shuanghua Penhuji with

            Shuanghuanglian Qiwuji.

            Pan 2000 compared Xiaoer Reganning with Vitamin C

            Yinqiao Chongji.

            Yang 2000 compared Huanghu Jiere Daipaoji with

            Shiqi Ganmao Daipaoji.

            Liu 2002 compared Kangbingdupian with Banlangen

            Chongji.

            Chen 2004 comparedGegenCenlianweiWanwith Yinqiao

            Jiedupian.

            Song 2004a compared self-prepared TCM cream with

            penicillin or lincomycin.

            Wang 2004 compared Sufeng Ganmao Koufuye with

            Ganmao Qinre Koufuye.

            Chang 2005 compared Jinlian Qinre capsules with Jinlian

            Qinre granules; that is the same ingredients in two

            different forms. The principle of selecting the control

            drug was that its “effect was commonly recognised”. A

            double-dummy placebo was used in both arms.

            Chang 2007 compared ChaigeQingre granule with Fufang

            Shuanghua granule.

            Wang 2008a used a double-dummy placebo in both

            arms, and compared Yiqing Shuangjie granule and

            Chaihuang tablet placebo with Chaihuang tablet, and

            compared Yiqing Shuangjie tablet and Caihuang tablet

            placebo with Chaihuang tablet.

            Zhang 2008 comparedQingyin injectionwithQinkailing

            injection

            Recovery (expressed as a dichotomous event)was used as a primary

            outcome in all trials, except for Pan 2000 and Zhang 2008. Inefficacy

            was reported in 15 trials. Fever clearance time was reported in

            six trials (Chang 2002; Chang 2005; Li 1998;Wang 1998;Wang

            2008a; Yu 1997). The time point at which the temperature started

            to abate was reported in four trials (Chang 2005; Li 1998; Wang

            1998; Wang 2008a). Six trials (Chang 2002; Chang 2005; Chen

            2004; Li 1999a;Wang 2008a; Yu 1997) compared the prevalence

            of viral respiratory tract infection by a throat swab culture. Five

            trials reported that liver and kidney function tests were carried

            out to look for side effects or adverse events (Chang 2002; Chang

            2005; Chang 2007; Wang 2008a; Zhang 2008).

            Eight trials (Chang 2002; Chang 2005; Chang 2007; Chen

            2004; Song 2004a;Wang 2004;Wang 2008a; Yu 2005) evaluated

            changes of TCM signs, which included “e feng han” (fear of wind

            and cold); “fa re” (fever); “bi sai liu ti” (snuffles and runny nose);

            examination of the colour and surface of the tongue; and “mai

            xiang” (examining the pulse).

            Risk of bias in included studies

            Randomisation

            Three trials (Chang 2002; Song 2004a; Yang 2000) mentioned

            that a random numbers table was used to generate the allocation

            sequence. Three trials (Chang 2005; Chang 2007; Wang 2008a)

            mentioned that SAS software was used to generate the sequences.

            The other 11 trials mentioned “random allocation”, but no description

            about which methods were used. After telephoning the

            trial authors, we learned that a random numbers table was used

            in seven trials (Chen 2004; Li 1998; Liu 2002; Ma 2000; Song

            2004a; Yu 1997; Yu 2005). Five trials used computer software (Li

            1999a; Pan 2000;Wang 2004; Zhang 2001; Zhang 2008) and one

            trial (Wang 1998) used the method of “mo jiu” (drawing straws).

            作者结论

            A U T H O R S ’ C O N C L U S I O N S

            Implications for practice

            We could not find a well-designed trial to provide strong evidence

            to support

            the use of any Chinese traditional herbal medicines for

            the treatment of the common cold.

分页树展主题 · 全看首页 上页
/ 10
下页 末页


有趣有益,互惠互利;开阔视野,博采众长。
虚拟的网络,真实的人。天南地北客,相逢皆朋友

Copyright © cchere 西西河