主题：《茗谈92》：搭桥 -- 本嘉明
家园 意思没表达清楚，其实我说的是同时会摄入更多的热量
家园 蛋白质不是热量，而是结构的需要 生理功能，需要酶来实现，酶是蛋白质，抗体什么也是。
大仙肚里如牛，有固氮菌，自己合成蛋白，有三聚氰氨当氮源就行了
家园 我的意思是摄入多少克蛋白质的同时，食物带来的热量更多 你不可能光食用纯蛋白吧
家园 中国的蛋白质，钙质和热量摄入明显不够 45克蛋白质摄入是低于人体正常需要的。
中国2011年猪、牛、羊、禽肉产量7803万吨，比上年增长0.3%，其中猪肉产量5053万吨，比上年下降0.4%。按人口14亿计算，每人国产肉食量为56公斤不到，其中猪肉是36公斤。
总计每天3两肉，只有45克蛋白质，离75克平均摄取量差一大截，离重体力所需90克蛋白差一半。
基于这个情况，国家在2011年进口了184.8万吨牛羊猪肉，其中猪肉135万吨。国际猪肉市场能够提供的量每年也就在500-600万吨之间，只不过是中国目前消费的猪肉的10%而已。
所以再增加5000万吨猪肉才能使中国人均蛋白质消费达到75克的水平，而国际市场上能提供的猪肉不过500万吨，缺口达90%。
所以寄希望于出口工业品去换取进口粮食猪肉来提高中国人民的营养水平是不可行的，做中帝国出去抢也没用，这个500万吨猪肉和8000万吨石油国际剩余产能的底线明摆在这里。
由于营养问题，中国学生的体质同日本学生的体质出现差异。
通宝推：forger,家园 中国人的蛋白质摄入不是靠肉类，而是靠豆制品 记得多年以前看过一篇文章：西方人一直以为蛋白质的摄入必须靠吃肉，在改革开放初期，有西方人发现中国人的肉类消耗极低，以此类推，认为中国人必然极度缺乏蛋白质，就想靠这个先装个B，再做点生意，结果经过测算发现中国人体内蛋白质含量和西方发达国家的人不相上下，于是彻底凌乱了，百思不得其解，后来经人提醒才发现中国人有一样西方根本没有的神器：豆腐。经过测算发现，某些豆制品的蛋白质吸收率比肉类还高，还不会引起心血管疾病，仅就蛋白质一项来说，比肉还健康。
这些人只能哭着回去了，而且西方人还就认吃肉，不接受豆制品，还推广不了，于是只能继续装B，想补偿蛋白质，只能吃肉。。。。。。
家园 大豆进口每年6000万吨 你这个吃豆制品就是“何不食肉糜”的现代翻版。
另外女性吃豆制品要当心，大豆制品植物甾族激素含量高，有诱发乳腺癌的危险。
家园 越扯越歪了 中国人乳腺癌发病率以前一直低于西方，近年因为饮食结构靠近西方等原因，乳腺癌发生率才逐年升高接近西方。
素食只会减少乳腺癌发病率好不好？！
- 复 越扯越歪了
家园 你这个才歪了 中国的乳腺癌和西方的乳腺癌不一样，中国人绝经前乳腺癌多，西方绝经后乳腺癌多，这种乳腺癌的发病机理不一样，与饮食关系很小。
- 复 你这个才歪了
家园 哦，那请麻烦解读一下这个研究的意思吧 Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007 Jul;16(7):1443-8. Epub 2007 Jul 10.
Dietary patterns and breast cancer risk in the shanghai breast cancer study.
Cui X, Dai Q, Tseng M, Shu XO, Gao YT, Zheng W.
Source
Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, USA.
Abstract
The association of breast cancer with dietary patterns such as a western diet has not been studied in Asian women. We examined this among Shanghai Breast Cancer Study participants. Cases were of ages 25 to 64 years, diagnosed 08/1996-03/1998, and identified through a rapid case ascertainment system supplemented by the Shanghai Cancer Registry. Controls, selected from the general population of urban Shanghai, were frequency matched to cases by 5-year age group. Participants provided information on diet, lifestyle, and reproductive factors. In principal component analysis among 1,556 controls, two patterns emerged: a "vegetable-soy" pattern (tofu, cauliflower, beans, bean sprouts, green leafy vegetables) and a "meat-sweet" pattern (shrimp, chicken, beef, pork, candy, desserts). In adjusted unconditional logistic regression analyses including 1,446 cases and 1,549 controls with complete covariate data, risk was not associated with the vegetable-soy pattern. It was associated with the meat-sweet pattern (4th versus 1st quartile: odds ratio, 1.3; 95% confidence interval, 1.0-1.7; P(trend) = 0.03), but only in postmenopausal women, specifically among those with estrogen receptor-positive tumors (4th versus 1st quartile: odds ratio, 1.9; 95% confidence interval, 1.1-3.3; P(trend) = 0.03). Our findings indicate that a western diet increases breast cancer risk in postmenopausal Chinese women. They also suggest the value of quantifying aggregate risk for common combinations of foods.
再看一下这个流行病学调查研究的数据（Cancer Causes Control. 2010 Nov;21(11):1777-85. Recent trends and patterns in breast cancer incidence among Eastern and Southeastern Asian women.Shin HR, Joubert C, Boniol M, et al.）吧：
年龄20–34、35–49、50–69和70岁以上几个年龄段的乳腺癌发病率在中国农村（嘉善、启东）分别为每十万妇女2.4、27.3、32.2、23.3，在上海分别为4.9、64.7、92.2、96.6。你觉得这个数据可以说明中国乳腺癌到底是绝经前多还是绝经后多吗？可以说明西方生活方式对中国乳腺癌的影响吗？
你还可以去搜几篇关于豆制品或大豆异黄酮对乳腺癌患者预后影响的文章，看看究竟饮食和乳腺癌有没有关系，再来这里讨论，OK?
家园 乳腺癌的危险因素如下： Factors that are associated with an increased risk of breast cancer include:
1.Being female. Women are much more likely than men are to develop breast cancer.
2.Increasing age. Your risk of breast cancer increases as you age. Women older than 55 have a greater risk than do younger women.
3.A personal history of breast cancer. If you've had breast cancer in one breast, you have an increased risk of developing cancer in the other breast.
4.A family history of breast cancer. If you have a mother, sister or daughter with breast cancer, you have a greater chance of being diagnosed with breast cancer. Still, the majority of people diagnosed with breast cancer have no family history of the disease.
Inherited genes that increase cancer risk. Certain gene mutations that increase the risk of breast cancer can be passed from parents to children. The most common gene mutations are referred to as BRCA1 and BRCA2. These genes can greatly increase your risk of breast cancer and other cancers, but they don't make cancer inevitable.
5.Radiation exposure. If you received radiation treatments to your chest as a child or young adult, you're more likely to develop breast cancer later in life.
6.Obesity. Being overweight or obese increases your risk of breast cancer because fat tissue produces estrogen that may help fuel certain cancers.
7.Beginning your period at a younger age. Beginning your period before age 12 increases your risk of breast cancer.
8.Beginning menopause at an older age. If you began menopause after age 55, you're more likely to develop breast cancer.
9.Having your first child at an older age. Women who give birth to their first child after age 35 may have an increased risk of breast cancer.
10.Postmenopausal hormone therapy. Women who take hormone therapy medications that combine estrogen and progesterone to treat the signs and symptoms of menopause have an increased risk of breast cancer.
11.Drinking alcohol. Drinking alcohol increases the risk of breast cancer. Experts recommend no more than one alcoholic beverage a day for women.
这是目前教科书和医生公认的因素，个别论文的东西，在循证医学上，证据级别低。
家园 哦，一会说中国人和西方人不同 一会又拿西方人的结论来说这是共识。兄弟，这种玩法不成啊。我拿出来的可是基于亚洲/中国人的数据哦。
要说循证医学证据等级，在这里根本是牛头不对马嘴啊。在病因和危险因素分析上，分析性流行病学研究是主要的方法，什么RCT、荟萃分析，这里基本用不上啊，何来循证医学证据等级呢？
家园 大豆里的激素的确是个事 FDA说没事，但这个结论是FDA请ADM做研究得出的结论，ADM就是四大粮商ABCD里的那个A，最大的大豆生产商之一，ADM说大豆没事，你信嘛，娃哈哈。。。
家园 进口大豆主要是为了榨油和喂猪，不是为了吃豆腐 家园 是的 国产大豆和进口转基因大豆的区别在于出油率和蛋白含量的区别.一般豆浆,豆腐,豆制品一类需要蛋白质的东西,多用国产大豆;炸油用的多是转基因大豆.
其实我一直觉得,多进口些美国农产品挺好的.工业产品换取农业产品本来就是赚钱的买卖,其次还有美国政府替我们补贴.理论上这都是好事情.
美国自然条件这么好,不给全世界做粮仓确实是可惜了.